The New Intimacy

How do you feel about gay marriage?

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Contributor: Chilipepper Chilipepper
I don't remember where I heard it, but it makes sense:

"As long as people aren't doing it out in the street and frightenin' the horses, they can do whatever the hell they want behind their own doors."

I don't see the problem, even in a legal sense, as a marriage has essentially the same laws as a business partnership in relation to debts, obligations, and rights pertaining to the other's best interest. (Hence the reason why my divorce parents never remarried each other when they fell in love again - my dad loves my mom dearly, but he doesn't trust her to make good financial decisions in his best interest).

The rest of it is religions dogma - which is why America was settled in the first place ... not for freedom *from* religion, but the freedom to practice *their* One True Religion. It crept into every law: 'no work on Sundays' and all that. (Sorry, I'm a history major.)

Again, it's not hurting anyone, and it's nobody else's business.
01/27/2010
Contributor: Passionate Pastor Passionate Pastor
Just wondering? How do you define marriage? Is it limited to two people? Can more than two be married? What about people who want to marry animals, is that a legitimate marriage?
03/03/2010
Contributor: EffinSara EffinSara
Quote:
Originally posted by Passionate Pastor
Just wondering? How do you define marriage? Is it limited to two people? Can more than two be married? What about people who want to marry animals, is that a legitimate marriage?
I see the question about poly marriages as one that merits some thought... I still have not personally reached an answer that I am happy with.

But the implication that a loving relationship between two consenting adults is in any way at all the same as a relationship between a person and a animal that is unable to give consent is just baiting and frankly very offensive.
03/03/2010
Contributor: Passionate Pastor Passionate Pastor
Quote:
Originally posted by ToyGeek
Anyone using the "it's not in the Bible" argument is just proving that they haven't actually read the Bible. Especially seeing as part of the traditional Christian marriage vows were originally spoken between two women. And ... more
If you don't mind could you post the references for those passages? Also, what do you do with Romans 1:26-27
03/03/2010
Contributor: Passionate Pastor Passionate Pastor
Quote:
Originally posted by EffinSara
I see the question about poly marriages as one that merits some thought... I still have not personally reached an answer that I am happy with.

But the implication that a loving relationship between two consenting adults is in any way at all ... more
I agree that is sounds ridiculous but it is a serious questions that is being asked. Peter Singer is the head ethicist at Princeton and he argues that personhood can be achieved by certain animals and that a sexual relationship is moral. I was not trying to be offensive but rather just trying to flush the question out completely.
03/04/2010
Contributor: EffinSara EffinSara
Quote:
Originally posted by Passionate Pastor
I agree that is sounds ridiculous but it is a serious questions that is being asked. Peter Singer is the head ethicist at Princeton and he argues that personhood can be achieved by certain animals and that a sexual relationship is moral. I was not ... more
Yes, it may be a serious question that some ethicists somewhere may be discussing. That people are asking the question at all is not offensive. But the question itself is completely unrelated to gay marriage and that you would imply that there is a connection between the two or some sort of potential "slippery slope" situation in allowing gay marriage is very offensive and a logical fallacy.
03/04/2010
Contributor: Passionate Pastor Passionate Pastor
Quote:
Originally posted by EffinSara
Yes, it may be a serious question that some ethicists somewhere may be discussing. That people are asking the question at all is not offensive. But the question itself is completely unrelated to gay marriage and that you would imply that there is a ... more
If you read my post, it was asking what was the definition of marriage. I was moving back from talking specifically about gay marriage and asking the bigger question of what marriage is.
03/04/2010
Contributor: Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
(EF Review Program Mentor)
Quote:
Originally posted by beahotwife
I think gays have every right to be as miserable as the rest of married couples
Or as deleriously happy as the rest of married couples...I believe marriage should be defined by the participants not an outside review panel...
03/10/2010
Contributor: Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
(EF Review Program Mentor)
Quote:
Originally posted by Passionate Pastor
Just wondering? How do you define marriage? Is it limited to two people? Can more than two be married? What about people who want to marry animals, is that a legitimate marriage?
A marriage must be a partnership between two or more consenting participants, hence an animal wouldn't be able to be married to a human. There is simply no way to ascertain consent. If it was ok for David to be married to many other women why isn't it ok for me to marry two men? Why is it such a damn issue for two women who want to commit to each other to be recognized as married...or two men?...or a whole freakin group of people?

No one has any answers that make logical sense to these questions as far as I've seen. My children are the excuse most people use to condemn my choices, yet my children are very well adjusted, well taken care of financially, and have three loving parents to turn to in times of crisis OR in times of joy. They don't feel "weird" or unusual and they don't have odd expectations about love. They simply understand that the 'one true love' model isn't necessarily healthy and having a loved one walk away, while painful isn't the end of the world. They accept that it's more important to find someone who treats them the way they deserve to be treated than it is to find an acceptible opposite sex partner only. And yes if my children choose to be polyamorous, monogamous, asexual or homosexual I will be perfectly ok with their decisions provided they are ok with their decisions. I have no problem with the idea that my girls, or my son, will choose the same path as myself or choose something entirely unique...and if they decide they want to get married then I will be all for it.

If they choose to be intimate with an animal...then I'll still love them and respect their choices. Without the ability to ascertain consent, however, I wouldn't accept a marriage with said animal. I do not, however, see a slippery slope issue here. Gay persons should be allowed the exact same freedoms that straight people enjoy. Period.
03/10/2010
Contributor: GNGenie GNGenie
I'm both for it and sick of hearing about it. I don't feel it should have even been a question and I'm really aggravated that religion gets to play a card: yes, many people in the United States are some type of Christian, but last time I checked this isn't a religious state.
04/25/2010
Contributor: Elodie Elodie
People made exactly the same "next we'll be letting people marry animals" argument against interracial marriage. It was specious then, it's specious now.

Quite a few Christian churches embrace gay marriage, thankfully.
04/25/2010
Contributor: ScotchIrish ScotchIrish
Quote:
Originally posted by Carrie Ann
I was reading over at the SF Gate this morning (cuz that's where my favorite columnist writes. Have you checked out Mark Morford? link You should. He's smart and funny and snarky as hell and I want to have insane sex with his brain) and, ... more
Any legal union between two consenting adults should have been allowed years ago. What the hell is the problem. Society must evolve. Take all the good and bad as heterosexuals have(from Taxes, Health/Life/Auto ...ect Ins, Family discounts, anything in life). Heterosexuals created the standard, now bring it up to date with respect and without ostracizing those among us who are attracted to the same sex. And stop calling it a different lifestyle. Of the Homosexual/Lesbians I know of; they want the same thing I do in life. Happiness, Love, Safety, Security. Who is anyone to say what is right and wrong. If you don't like it, keep your limited opinion to yourself or those with whom you enjoy very little light of day under that shell you live. Hey, Mr. & Mrs. Caveman they act, talk, walk, dress, look, live different from you. Just like anyone else on the Speeding Globe. There is no right or wrong, just different. They are just as Frigging Human as the Hets. Hell, most are more HUMANE than HETS. I am STRAIGHT. But, I accept more and more after the occurrences In my life. I learn more each day. No committee, group,elective will ever be the same as me. We are all different. John Q. or Joan Q citizen is just another person. No one gets out alive; and I only know of one who came back. And it is a hell of a story. Do you know the difference between a belief and a story. A belief is a personal perception based upon stories, occurrences, education and experiences ...ect. Stories are accounts,facts exaggerations, images, theories, occurrences, education told by one, or more, of a group, a coalition ..ect,over time (history)for the continuation of said associations collective interest investment and advancement into the future. Why not just get ALONG. JLW-PGH (Hello, is this thing on?
04/25/2010
Contributor: twistedheartsx twistedheartsx
All for it, that's all I need to say
07/22/2010
Contributor: PonyPlay PonyPlay
Here is my thing with gay marriage. I feel like people deserve equal rights but I guess I feel like you can spend the rest of your life with someone even if you are not married. I guess I just kinda feel like gays do everything that married people do now besides get divorced. I'm not saying I'm against gay marriage or anything I just think that more and more people are living together and not legally married in this day and age and I feel like eventually marriage wont be a legal concern. Meaning marriage wont just be a piece of paper that is signed by the both of you that give you the permission to say you are married. I think it's more about the commitment rather then the legal piece of paper.
07/23/2010
Contributor: Lady Venus Lady Venus
love is love. that is all.
07/27/2010
Contributor: Sera Sera
Quote:
Originally posted by Carrie Ann
I was reading over at the SF Gate this morning (cuz that's where my favorite columnist writes. Have you checked out Mark Morford? link You should. He's smart and funny and snarky as hell and I want to have insane sex with his brain) and, ... more
We all have the right to love who we want to love.
08/02/2010
Contributor: happeegrl03 happeegrl03
As a woman in a same-sex relationship (for 13+ years, same relationship) I am all for it. My reason for wanting to marry my partner are not so much to be able to say "we are married", but for other reasons. Any hospital, hotel, renal, etc can turn us away just for being in a same-sex relationship. If one of us is in the hospital in critical care the hospital can deny the other person the rights to hospital visits because we are not "family". I feel that is very very wrong. About two years ago a female couple with their two children were on a cruise. One of them got very ill and was rushed to a hospital, where she later passed away. The partner was not allowed to visit her in the hospital, not even to say goodbye in her last moments. They had two children, one she gave birth to and the other her partner gave birth to. Only her biological child was allowed to see her to say goodbye. Even though they had legal papers drawn up to avoid a situation like this, it still happened. I can not comprehend how so many people feel that gay marriage is wrong but denying a loved one to visit or say goodbye is morally right?! It is just insane. My parnter and I had legal papers drawn up a few years ago. $2000 later we have the legal documents, however any hospital can deny us regardless of paper work or not. Also, don't get me started on adoption! Thanks to Anita Bryant in the 70's gays cannot adopt in many states, my state being one of them. ugh. People are not born with hate, hate grows from what they are taught and see. I can only hope that as the world evolves so will people's attitudes to those that are different. I'm glad that there are so many wonderful people here on this forum.
08/02/2010
Contributor: PassionQT PassionQT
I'm all for it too.

Jack McCoy said in an episode of Law & Order:

"Let 'em marry. Why shouldn't they be as miserable as the rest of us? "
08/03/2010
Contributor: happeegrl03 happeegrl03
Quote:
Originally posted by PassionQT
I'm all for it too.

Jack McCoy said in an episode of Law & Order:

"Let 'em marry. Why shouldn't they be as miserable as the rest of us? "
LOL. I love that episode of Law & Order.
08/03/2010
Contributor: Yesenia Yesenia
I'm all for it
08/03/2010
Contributor: Tisbury Tisbury
Quote:
Originally posted by happeegrl03
As a woman in a same-sex relationship (for 13+ years, same relationship) I am all for it. My reason for wanting to marry my partner are not so much to be able to say "we are married", but for other reasons. Any hospital, hotel, renal, etc ... more
I am for gay marriage because of pretty much almost the same reason. I don't want to be just "married" to my partner one day. I'm afraid that something is going to happen one day and I won't be able to see her in the hospital or be there for her because we're a same-sex couple etc.
09/09/2010
Contributor: onehotmomma onehotmomma
I don't really care about gay marriage. I'm not gay, so it doesn't affect me.
09/09/2010
Contributor: Owl Identified Owl Identified
I notice someone was asking about where in the Bible the supposedly anti-gay messages are. The passages that people generally quote are from Leviticus and Romans. Both passages are very vague. Leviticus merely states that a man should not lie with another man as he does with a woman, and Romans vaguely condemns "shameful acts of passion" between men but does not condemn relations between women.

Paul states in Romans that these acts follow from pagan worship as do the comparable acts of slander, gossip, disobedience to parents, which are all mentioned in the same breath as the abominable acts "passion." The "acts of passion" are never clearly defined, and many believe that the acts referred to are actually prostitution.

Leviticus' language is also quite vague regarding homosexuality, although its language on other subjects is much more clear. Leviticus also tells us not to eat shellfish (18:22,) or sheer a man's head (19:27,) and that if a man and woman have sex while she is menstruating they should be exiled (20:18.) It also tells us that slaves should be imported from other nations (25:44,) a garment should never be made from two different clothes, or in other words a blend of two fabrics like cotton and polyester (19:19,) that anyone that speaks badly to a parent must be put to death (20:9).

Of course the only salient passages these days seem to be the ones that prevent everyone from enjoying the right to marry. Conveniently the parts about enslaving other human beings and eating pork and shellfish have been conveniently forgotten. Oops.

It's also worth noting that the Bible has been translated hundreds of times by fallible, mortal hands that can incorrectly construe a word or phrase or project their own agenda onto a passage. The Bible isn't the word of God, it is the word of God as written by humans, then interpreted by other humans, then interpreted by other humans....
09/19/2010
Contributor: iceman681 iceman681
love thee neighbor not i hide in the bush and tells secrets.
09/19/2010
Contributor: mllebeauty mllebeauty
Quote:
Originally posted by Owl Identified
I notice someone was asking about where in the Bible the supposedly anti-gay messages are. The passages that people generally quote are from Leviticus and Romans. Both passages are very vague. Leviticus merely states that a man should not lie with ... more
Thanks for the references and well-thought out comments! You make very good points.
09/24/2010
Contributor: Jobthingy Jobthingy
My mom is gay and married her partner back in 2003. I have no issues with it.
09/27/2010
Contributor: Trashley Trashley
Quote:
Originally posted by Viv
My fiancee and I are currently planning our wedding for this October--and it's our wedding and we'll be married in the eyes of our gods and our friends, no matter what the law books say. So that's my stance on the matter.

Funny ... more
That's beautiful! I hope your wedding is everything you imagined. The pope can fuck off haha :]
10/26/2010
Contributor: Danielle1220 Danielle1220
I'm all for it
10/26/2010
Contributor: Madeira Madeira
My girlfriend and I are directly affected by this and it kills me that gay couples still aren't allowed to marry. I want to spend the rest of my life with the woman I love, have children with her, I want a family with her. I hate that we're denied human rights simply because we happen to have the same sexual organs.

I also HATE people who claim to be against gay marriage for religious reasons. We live in a country with separation between church and state, voting from your religious beliefs is a hideous offense to the American ideal of government, as well so called "Christians" who oppose gay marriage often don't oppose pre-marital sex, the wearing of mixed fibers and plenty of other things that are in Leviticus, use all of it or none of it, going half way just to deny gay people our rights makes you the worst kind of hypocrites.
10/26/2010
Contributor: ToyGeek ToyGeek
Quote:
Originally posted by Madeira
My girlfriend and I are directly affected by this and it kills me that gay couples still aren't allowed to marry. I want to spend the rest of my life with the woman I love, have children with her, I want a family with her. I hate that we're ... more
Agreed!

I'm so tired of people using the Bible as a weapon! I have a lot of trouble believing that those types of people have even read the Bible, since they've obviously missed the meaning of significant portions of it.
10/27/2010