The New Intimacy

#EdenTasks - Upcoming Change

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Contributor: El-Jaro El-Jaro
I'm in favor of rotating editors and really don't like using the word "fired" when it comes to this process. It's just that: a process.

We have some really great editors now and some that really started phoning it in and just wanted to get EP's. I'm kinda sad to see some great editors rotate out, but also anxious to see the next group of editors come through.

Maybe after a few rotations, we'll have a better idea for who the best editors are and could go from there. One of the biggest things with the program is that we wanted to make sure we made it fair. The first group of editors have had a while, probably more than the next rotations. But remember, it's a process.

On the plus side, the first batch of editors can put down the experience in their Mentor descriptions and help out editors that way too.
08/02/2011
Contributor: Kindred Kindred
After thinking about it further, I like the idea of simply decreasing the number of reviews an editor can do daily to accommodate new editors. Again, my concern is with consistency. With rotating editors, changes or problems discovered will not be learned by those editors currently off the cycle. They will have to learn any changes all over again. I think the bigger issue is how to determine who is not doing the job adequately and removing them from the program.
08/02/2011
Contributor: Ajax Ajax
The only people who seem to have a problem with the new system coming in are the people who are already editors. I understand that some of them have JUST gotten into the program. If that's the case then anyone who has been in less than 3 months should get to stay through the first rotation, but some of them have been there for what will equal nearly 3 rotations. Out with the old, in with the new. It's not like they'll never be back in. Everyone should have a chance.

Off topic a little bit, but are there any other tasks besides editing in the works?
08/02/2011
Contributor: Redboxbaby Redboxbaby
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
Absolutely! It makes no sense to be editing other people's reviews, while someone else still needs to edits yours.

I refrain from voting on editors, because most are well done, and I don't know if the original writer simply wrote well ... more
This is exactly why I do not vote on editor's as well.
08/02/2011
Contributor: BBW Talks Toys BBW Talks Toys
Quote:
Originally posted by Ajax
The only people who seem to have a problem with the new system coming in are the people who are already editors. I understand that some of them have JUST gotten into the program. If that's the case then anyone who has been in less than 3 months ... more
I think "Out with the old and in with the new" isn't quite the sentiment I'm feeling. More like, "Share, and share alike?"

Like JR said, I don't see it as a title being stripped away, rather making room for others to have a go. If after a few rotations they get a better feel for who is editing well and who is not, then they might be able to have a set group of editors.
08/02/2011
Contributor: newfoundlust newfoundlust
Quote:
Originally posted by BBW Talks Toys
I think "Out with the old and in with the new" isn't quite the sentiment I'm feeling. More like, "Share, and share alike?"

Like JR said, I don't see it as a title being stripped away, rather making room for ... more
That is why we are thinking that a limit of a certain # of editing assignments per day/week/month would allow everyone to participate, both old and new.
08/02/2011
Contributor: BBW Talks Toys BBW Talks Toys
Quote:
Originally posted by newfoundlust
That is why we are thinking that a limit of a certain # of editing assignments per day/week/month would allow everyone to participate, both old and new.
It came out more crass than how I really feel though.

I think the rotation is a good idea as they streamline the program and give chances for newer people to prove themselves. If they end up with a set group of editors, then that's great; but those of us who've not had the chance, should get the chance.
08/02/2011
Contributor: Kindred Kindred
Quote:
Originally posted by BBW Talks Toys
It came out more crass than how I really feel though.

I think the rotation is a good idea as they streamline the program and give chances for newer people to prove themselves. If they end up with a set group of editors, then that's ... more
I agree to allow new people into the program. However, one downside that I tried to indicate earlier is that there is potentially a learning curve every time an editor is back on the job. New issues and changes are constantly cropping up. By removing people from the program, even temporarily, means that there is a set back each time they start again. That's why it would be better, in my opinion, to accommodate new editors into the current pool rather than remove and replace, even if it's temporary. That's why I originally suggested a FAQ. There are nuances that you can't know about unless you are involved in the program. I've been an editor since the beginning and I still learn new things. My suggestions are to make the program more successful, not because I don't want to step down from the position. I have already indicated that I'm fine with the decision as originally posted by Sammi.
08/02/2011
Contributor: js250 js250
Quote:
Originally posted by Ajax
So maybe they take on half new editors and half old editors every round....or 3/4 new people 1/4 older editors. The older editors being people who were in *and good at their job* before rotations started. That way you guys know you WILL get back in.
I like this suggestion.

There could be two separate application options. One for recurring editors and another for new applicants. The rotations could go as previously stated in the referred quote.

Or....1/3 experienced editors, 1/3 recurring new editors and 1/3 brand new editors, (first time applicants). These could be chosen blindly from numbered applications. A test?..do a short review on a product and submit it to the administrators.

I am sure there are going to be unhappy as well as happy people with whatever choices Eden comes out with, but as the site grows, changes will have to occur to keep it current and fresh.
08/02/2011
Contributor: js250 js250
Sorry, I just thought of something. If Eden went with experienced and new editor percentages, why not do the rotation as a staggered rotation. For example: Experienced rotates out half-way through the new start date. Otherwise there will be a serious lull in editing until the newbies get the hang of editing. The rotations are still 3 months, just different months for experience levels.
08/02/2011
Contributor: BBW Talks Toys BBW Talks Toys
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
I agree to allow new people into the program. However, one downside that I tried to indicate earlier is that there is potentially a learning curve every time an editor is back on the job. New issues and changes are constantly cropping up. By ... more
Oh, I understand. The suggestion about staggering the rotation, or using a percentage of newer/older editors is good too. And the newer editors could have a list of people that they can ask questions to. Kind of like editor-mentors, if you will.
08/02/2011
Contributor: ZenaidaMacroura ZenaidaMacroura
I'm okay with the whole rotating editors thing in a way, though I do think staggering it in some way would be a good idea. I'm not too keen on having to reapply and everything, but what can I do? I agree with some of the other current editors that it seems kind of strange to get rid of the editors who were doing a good job just so it's fair. I understand everyone wants a chance, but I feel like it would make more sense to get rid of editors who aren't so great at it and replace them. Not so much for fairness, but for the sake of the quality of the editing.

I also disagree with raising the rank requirement like some have suggested. I was only a 5.4 when I was accepted as a proofreader. My reviews didn't autopublish. And it didn't matter at all. Rank has nothing to do with editing ability.

I really feel like if I say anything about not liking this rotation thing, I'll get called out as greedy or unfair, so I was just going to not comment at all, but meh. I don't think all editors should be let go. I realize editing is a privilege and not a right, but that goes for everyone, including people who didn't like the system the way it was.
08/02/2011
Contributor: Sir Sir
Again, I still would like to know how certain people are making such mistakes, yet they are not being voted on or taken out of the program. It seems contradictory to me, to say that there are people who are doing poorly when they are not being rated.
08/02/2011
Contributor: DeliciousSurprise DeliciousSurprise
A. I'm a fan of rotating editors.
B. Perhaps there can be a thread for editors only? That way we could post things like, "XYZ person has posted 8 reviews in a row; if you pick one up, forward it to admin/leave it in the queue."
C. If there was a FAQ, that could be one of the questions ("If I see someone spamming the queue, what do I do?!")
D. Is for Dolphin.
08/02/2011
Contributor: aliceinthehole aliceinthehole
Quote:
Originally posted by BBW Talks Toys
Which I think is why it is important to raise the ranking to, at the very minimum, people whose reviews self-publish.

If there is no test, that should be the basic requirement. If reviews have good grammar and are self-publishing, then ... more
on this, i have definitely seen on a not-so-rare occassion reviews that shortly after starting the read i think 'who edited this? i'm gonna have to rate it poor, this is awful' but they edit their OWN reviews.

what are the standards for not personally having to go through an editor before your reviews are published? is there a rank requirement?

08/02/2011
Contributor: aliceinthehole aliceinthehole
Quote:
Originally posted by BBW Talks Toys
But the way it feels from the outside is:

There are those of us who are qualified to edit reviews. We simply cannot get into the program because there is no room because no one is stepping down as an editor. And why would anyone step down? ... more
amen sister.

let us have a go at it too! don't hog all the editing fun, guys!
08/02/2011
Contributor: DeliciousSurprise DeliciousSurprise
Quote:
Originally posted by aliceinthehole
on this, i have definitely seen on a not-so-rare occassion reviews that shortly after starting the read i think 'who edited this? i'm gonna have to rate it poor, this is awful' but they edit their OWN reviews.

what are the ... more
Reviews begin begin auto-publishing when a reviewer reaches a ranking of 5.5. This information can be found on the proofreading program instructions page.
08/02/2011
Contributor: cherryredhead88 cherryredhead88
Quote:
Originally posted by BBW Talks Toys
I don't mean to sound bitchy, but there are some contributors who have applied several times over six month period only to be told "no, there are too many editors." Personally, I've applied twice. I like this idea because it gives ... more
No offense taken. As I said before, I am all for sharing the wealth, I am just nervous about re applying. Since you have re applied twice yourself you will understand what I am talking about, no? I applied 3 times in 3 months before I got accepted. So if I (or you, or anyone for that matter) has to wait three months, then apply and get denied, that means we have to wait 3 more months and re apply. If it was that hard to get accepted when there was only a select few, what makes you think it is going to be any easier?


I suggest taking a poll to see who all really wants to edit, and then split the rotation up among those people like we do with DR's. It would be a lot easier than re applying every time. If someone loses interest or shows no interest for so long, then they could/should re apply.

But I don't think everyone re applying every 3 months is going to be fair, either. I would rather do it like the DR's.
08/02/2011
Contributor: cherryredhead88 cherryredhead88
Quote:
Originally posted by BBW Talks Toys
But the way it feels from the outside is:

There are those of us who are qualified to edit reviews. We simply cannot get into the program because there is no room because no one is stepping down as an editor. And why would anyone step down? ... more
I don't see any reason why they can't allow more editors in , in the first place. Obviously you are anxious about getting in, but what about when rotation starts and you get kicked back out after just 3 months?

Don't you all think that we could never have enough editors?
08/02/2011
Contributor: cherryredhead88 cherryredhead88
Quote:
Originally posted by BBW Talks Toys
You didn't rock my boat.

I understand what you mean and why you feel that way. But if no one steps down, how will those who are qualified ever be given the chance?

I think this works to make it open to all who have the skills to ... more
Simple: Those who are incompetent, step down. Those who are good, stay here.


I really don't understand why everyone is pushing so hard on this, whining about getting into the program. Those who are editors, have been here a long (LONG) time, and have worked very hard to get in. That's why the program was so picky in the first place.


It doesn't have to be looked at as, "getting fired", but again, I will say, that with all the people chomping at the bit to get in, who's to say us editors know will ever get another chance? Say 100 people apply and there are only 20 spots, and 10 re apply have already edited. That leaves the choices to go towards those who HAVEN'T edited, and DON'T have experience editing. Ergo, more poorly edited reviews.
08/02/2011
Contributor: Alan & Michele Alan & Michele
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
Again, I still would like to know how certain people are making such mistakes, yet they are not being voted on or taken out of the program. It seems contradictory to me, to say that there are people who are doing poorly when they are not being rated.
Actually we've seen several instances where an editor *did* get Poor votes on some reviews but are still in the program. I think Eden may have held off on letting them go though due to a known flaw in the program.
An editor only has access to the review for a certain period of time, yet the reviewer can always go back and change things.
Right now we have a support ticket in for this very situation--- a review that we edited was posted and we started receiving Excellent votes for it, but now all of a sudden the unedited version is back in place. We were just waiting for the Poor votes to come rolling in on us over it.
08/02/2011
Contributor: cherryredhead88 cherryredhead88
Quote:
Originally posted by js250
I like this suggestion.

There could be two separate application options. One for recurring editors and another for new applicants. The rotations could go as previously stated in the referred quote.

Or....1/3 experienced editors, 1/3 ... more
This is a fantastic idea! I think that would really level out the playing field. Plus the idea that was tossed around about decreasing the number of reviews done daily.

I don't appreciate people taking this as if us editors don't want to "share", this is an adult forum? So why are people acting like children?

I have been reading through this thread and all I see is the editors here trying to figure out how to stay in something that we have worked so hard for, WHILE being able to "share our ball". It's not about the points (which seems to be why some might be so uppity about this?) It's not about the perfect grammar (who cares if there are mistakes, everyone makes them, and I agree with Sapphire Storm about the irony) and it's not about who's better. It's about making Eden better, making the reviews better, and being fair.

This seems to be turning into an argument instead of a civil conversation. I love editing, but if everyone is going to continue whining about it, you can have my spot. It's not worth it. You can have the ball.


/bitchfest


Anyways, I am very tired and trying to sort this whole thread out so forgive me if I sound, well, "crass", but I think it's all being blown out of proportion.

Edit: Just read A&M's post up there, I think that is a major flaw with editing and voting on editing. There is just no way to tell whose mistakes are really there.

I also agree with Sir, I would like to see if I am doing a bad job. Tell me if I did poorly on something. Don't get bitchy and call me out in front of everyone, but message me, let me know what you saw. Maybe all these poor mistakes are really just OP's changing their reviews back. No one will ever know if no one votes.
08/02/2011
Contributor: BBW Talks Toys BBW Talks Toys
Quote:
Originally posted by cherryredhead88
This is a fantastic idea! I think that would really level out the playing field. Plus the idea that was tossed around about decreasing the number of reviews done daily.

I don't appreciate people taking this as if us editors don't want ... more
I didn't feel like anyone was arguing, but I've been keeping up with the thread pretty regularly. Hrrmmm...

Anyway, it's not so much that I'm jonesing to get in. In 8 months, I've applied twice (six or seven months apart). I may not have been here quite as long as you, but I've been here quite a while and I work hard around here. I just understand how it feels for some who are very anxious to get in. I'm not always the most eloquent person, but I have a knack for putting some things into words. Not that I don't put my foot in it every once and a while.
08/02/2011
Contributor: Darling Jen Darling Jen
Quote:
Originally posted by DeliciousSurprise
I mean, let the record show that I am, of course, against this whole idea.


That being said, I think that all editorial prospects should have to pass some kind of test, showing that they are able to edit effectively, efficiently, ... more
I kinda have to agree with DS on this. Not that I don't see the value in this new system but I do wonder if the cons outweigh the pros and that perhaps it should have just been more selective with choosing editors, had a pre-test, and a higher minimum rating. And this may not seem 'fair' easier but I don't see someone who has written 2 or fewer reviews being as invested and I'd want them to be more involved than that... This is just my opinion, of course.
08/02/2011
Contributor: aliceinthehole aliceinthehole
Quote:
Originally posted by DeliciousSurprise
I like the idea of blind editing.

Not just for the editor application, but in general.

Of course, that would make it very tricksy for us to weed out spam reviews. Hmmm...
you get 'spam reviews'? wtf? how does that even happen, and why?
08/02/2011
Contributor: Darling Jen Darling Jen
Ok so now that I've read through more of the thread (d'oh!) I see more of the value in this new process. Though, I confess, I'm still a bit hesitant about it. And not because I'm a current editor (after trying 3 times) because I've been soooo busy these past few weeks that I have done very little compared to what I used to be able to fit in. So personally I wouldn't mind giving up my space for a bit to let someone else start out enthusiastically and with fervor like I did mine and then reapplying later when my schedule settles down. It's the whole "can of worms" some of the others were talking about... I dunno, I'm just wary of it since it's new, I guess.
08/02/2011
Contributor: BBW Talks Toys BBW Talks Toys
Quote:
Originally posted by aliceinthehole
you get 'spam reviews'? wtf? how does that even happen, and why?
Points, mostly.
08/03/2011
Contributor: BBW Talks Toys BBW Talks Toys
Quote:
Originally posted by BBW Talks Toys
I didn't feel like anyone was arguing, but I've been keeping up with the thread pretty regularly. Hrrmmm...

Anyway, it's not so much that I'm jonesing to get in. In 8 months, I've applied twice (six or seven months ... more
And I didn't mean that "hrrrmmmm" to sound like you're not keeping up... Just wondering what you're seeing that I'm not.
08/03/2011
Contributor: DeliciousSurprise DeliciousSurprise
Quote:
Originally posted by aliceinthehole
you get 'spam reviews'? wtf? how does that even happen, and why?
I'm posting from my phone while on the subway, be gentle. We get reviewers who submit 10 reviews all at once, with one line for each category, or who just copy/paste the product description for the points. If I pick up three and sir picks up three, cherry picks up three, Jen doesn't know that the last one is spam. Plus, once we pick up a spam review, that counts as one of our three reviews of the day, even if we transfer it to admin.

Hope that helps.
08/03/2011
Contributor: cherryredhead88 cherryredhead88
Quote:
Originally posted by BBW Talks Toys
And I didn't mean that "hrrrmmmm" to sound like you're not keeping up... Just wondering what you're seeing that I'm not.
I am not sure what you mean by this? I am just putting in my 2 cents (or 4, or 6, or however many )

It just seems like this is very divided between those who are already editing and those who want to be editors.

It seems that those who want to be editors feel as though us editors now don't want to give up our positions. It's not about giving it up, it's about giving it up and not knowing if we will ever get it back, also I just see a lot of people trying to work through kinks and details that probably haven't even been thought of yet in the brainstorm department.

I still say we do it like the description reviews. I don't know how many people do DR's, but I do know that it cycles through and we each get our turns.

I read through this whole thread last night and I tend to keep up with things around here. Only reason I haven't been around a lot lately is because I have a life outside of Eden (that is not an attack on anyone BTW, I remember being able to just be on here all day and I wish I still could do that) and I lost my internet for a few months back there.

I have been contributing regularly for the whole year and a half I have been here and I don't tend to stop

BBW, you keep saying you applied twice in 8 months, you can re apply every month, so if you wanted in so bad why didn't you keep re applying every time you could ? Just curious.
08/03/2011