The New Intimacy

Point Reconsideration proposal.

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Contributor: Fred Petrenko Fred Petrenko
(EdenFantasys)
I am considering (no decision has been made yet) to restore points to the honest contributors. Would you say this is a fair deal or not?

You will be asked to submit a reconsideration request. It is optional. If you chose not to participate, your points will remain as they are now.
We review the submission manually and decide whether your points will be restored or completely erased.

All your points (or converted Gift Cards) will be cancelled and removed if company finds that you accumulated 500 points or more by intentionally abusing the system. Abuse will include but not be limited to the following actions:

- publishing a large number of reviews in a short period of time; unless clear proof of the product ownership by the author is established;

- publishing plagiarized reviews, nonsensical reviews (reviews on the products like Gift Cards, Eden Bags, batteries, and other promotional item), vandalized reviews, reviews without substance: this will be deemed point farming;

- reaching regularly daily limits on secondary activities like "liking", "commenting", "rating", etc...; this will be deemed point farming;

- starting and participating in nonsensical forum discussions like "Let's count up to 5,000", etc...; making posts reported as spam; this will be deemed point farming;

- opening multiple accounts;

- if your account has been suspended, terminated, or otherwise noted for the same or similar activities;
Answers (public voting - your screen name will appear in the results):
Yes, this is fair
No, this is unfair
philip steven , ImaGodiva , GonetoLovehoney , SimpleHedonist , snowminx , LuckyLady , pootpootpoot , gorgeous , LoneOokami , Lildrummrgurl7
10  (100%)
Total votes: 10
Poll is closed
06/23/2013
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Contributor: SMichelle SMichelle
"- reaching regularly daily limits on secondary activities like "liking", "commenting" , "rating", etc...; this will be deemed point farming"

I don't quite agree with this one. The guidelines were put in place, so several, or even most, people of course did this.

I tried very hard to submit the highest quality reviews that I can (on items that I actually own), and to contribute to all areas of the site. Is it point farming if I read reviews, rate them and comment?

Also, I don't feel that liking items on facebook should count as point farming. Liking items is a way of promoting Eden, after all.

Further, I'm confused by what you mean by "nonsensical reviews"? As one of the top 10 contributors at this time, I've written a lot of reviews -- several on toys and lingerie, but I've also written reviews for the wipes, bag, and cock ring that you guys give out. Does this mean that I would be considered a point farmer?
06/23/2013
Contributor: philip steven philip steven
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
I am considering (no decision has been made yet) to restore points to the honest contributors. Would you say this is a fair deal or not?

You will be asked to submit a reconsideration request. It is optional. If you chose not to participate, ... more
I only half agree. For example, I write a couple review when I do - mostly because I don't get on the computer often. Why should I need to prove that I own these things? Reaching daily limits also seems unreasonable... The limit is there for a reason.
Edit: consider my vote invalid as it was an accidental click on my phone >.<
06/23/2013
Contributor: SMichelle SMichelle
Also -- "
- publishing a large number of reviews in a short period of time; unless clear proof of the product ownership by the author is established" isn't exactly fair.

I am a fast writer, especially when writing about items that I like. At this point in time, I own about 400 items from Eden, sex toys, lingerie, lubes, and body products. It is very easy for me to write 2 or 3 (sometimes more) reviews in one day, especially during days that I'm not working.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Fred Petrenko Fred Petrenko
(EdenFantasys)
Quote:
Originally posted by SMichelle
"- reaching regularly daily limits on secondary activities like "liking", "commenting" , "rating", etc...; this will be deemed point farming"

I don't quite agree with this one. The guidelines were ... more
"liking", "rating", etc... are small priced activities that won't reach 500 points threshold. Reviews of the GCs, wipes, batteries, free gifts - is a different issue. What was the motivation on posting reviews for these items? Helping community? Customers? I doubt it. Most likely the motive was points and this is not good.
06/23/2013
Contributor: PropertyOfPotter PropertyOfPotter
I don't believe that this is fair. My account was suspended a few months ago and I felt that it was an inappropriate decision but didn't speak up for fear of getting banned. If you're not willing to look at what a person truly contributes, than what's the point of looking into any of it?

I can only speak for myself, but I have spent hours of my time contributing quality reviews, writing articles, mentoring students, giving feedback, helping people around the forums, etc. And if you're only going to look at the fact that people stopped certain actions once they hit the daily limit, that's just sad because so many of us did SO MUCH MORE than that every day.

I would also like to question what you mean by nonsensical reviews. If you didn't want people to write reviews on certain items, you shouldn't have had it as an option.

I have written many reviews over shorter periods of time, and have included my own photos in each of those reviews. These are products I received from Eden, how else is someone supposed to prove that? I guess I have proof with the order recipes, but nothing beyond that.

I think it's great that you're 'considering' looking into individual accounts, but I don't think that these standards are fair and will work out well.
06/23/2013
Contributor: indiechick indiechick
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
I am considering (no decision has been made yet) to restore points to the honest contributors. Would you say this is a fair deal or not?

You will be asked to submit a reconsideration request. It is optional. If you chose not to participate, ... more
When I first joined eden, know one made me aware of what point farming meant. While I have never had a point ban placed on me, a friend made me aware of what it was and that I should be careful. I have had no issues every with this company because of point farming, but feel that you could say whatever you want to not give me my points that I earned.

Also I do not log on very often, so when I do log on I do often reach daily limits, because I am making up for the 5 days in the week I did not log on. You made these things accessible to us, and to punish us for meeting daily limits and therefore participating actively in EF life is absurd.

I have worked very hard to make this an option. Converting points to a useable form. I have tried to make life slightly more normal. I have opened communication between you FRED and the community. I have never in my entire year here Intentionally abused anything, but feel like you are giving yourself too many ways to delete the points of hard working edenites.

I will likely submit a request, but you've got to lessen up on these rulings. I have worked very hard for you and this company. I have repeatedly stood up for you and stormy and this company, but really feel like this is yet another game and I am disappointed by it.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Fred Petrenko Fred Petrenko
(EdenFantasys)
Quote:
Originally posted by philip steven
I only half agree. For example, I write a couple review when I do - mostly because I don't get on the computer often. Why should I need to prove that I own these things? Reaching daily limits also seems unreasonable... The limit is there for a ... more
We will require proof of ownership if there are many reviews submitted in a relatively short period of time. Product review is a factual account of the experience, it cannot be written if the author didn't use the product. Due to the nature of the products, it cannot be borrowed, therefore, you or your significant other should own it. This is what we would ask in some cases.
06/23/2013
Contributor: PropertyOfPotter PropertyOfPotter
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
"liking", "rating", etc... are small priced activities that won't reach 500 points threshold. Reviews of the GCs, wipes, batteries, free gifts - is a different issue. What was the motivation on posting reviews for these items? ... more
Every product I own, have written reviews on, or have yet to write reviews about, are to share my opinion, experience, and feelings on a product. Just for points? If I was doing that, I wouldn't have invested so much time in every review I've published - I would have pushed out the bare minimum instead of being so thorough, and including so many helpful photos.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Chastity Darling Chastity Darling
"- reaching regularly daily limits on secondary activities like "liking", "commenting", "rating", etc...; this will be deemed point farming;

- starting and participating in nonsensical forum discussions like "Let's count up to 5,000", etc...; making posts reported as spam; this will be deemed point farming; "


What about those of us that do reach our limit on the "secondary activities" but go above and beyond... ie, continue to comment or rate even when we do not gain points for the actions?? I have done that as a way to help reward those that produce great reviews or offer suggestions to those that may have needed some help.

And as for the forum stuff... I thought the idea was to promote community relationships and I participate and MANY forums that do not work off of a point system that have massive threads for just forum games. Some of these threads are ways for us to connect or blow off steam, not necessarily to gain points.

I have NEVER "point farmed" and usually had my points alert thing turned off but received notices (relating to lures specifically) that I was while using the available system to organize my wishlists.

Honestly, Fred, I think this may be too little too late. You have alienated a vast majority of the community that was built up here and I don't think that there is a viable way to redeem yourself or this company. You have severely disappointed so many of us and broken a trust that will probably never be rebuilt. I hope you can be a man of your word and allow us to use the points that we earned in good faith, but I won't be holding my breath.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Titty Sprinkles Titty Sprinkles
"-publishing a large number of reviews in a short period of time; unless clear proof of the product ownership by the author is established"
Fred u can come to my crib. I'll show you how I live. Seriously what do you want me to do, upload pics of the vibrator inside my butthole with a timestamp?
How do you suggest we provide proof of owning the items?

"publishing plagiarized reviews, nonsensical reviews (reviews on the products like Gift Cards, Eden Bags, batteries, and other promotional item), vandalized reviews, reviews without substance: this will be deemed point farming"
I'm sorry but how is publishing a review on an eden bag, free gift, or batteries bought from your site point farming? If the review had decent content. There are (estimated) over 9000 Pure Wand reviews, are those point farming too?
How is reviewing these items point farming? How are those nonsenical? Sometimes I like to read the reviews to see which gift I should pick and which I should pass up on.

"reaching regularly daily limits on secondary activities like "liking", "commenting" , "rating", etc...; this will be deemed point farming"
Golly Fred, I thought that Facebook likes were going to be a requirement to become a regular member! And that Stormy said "if they don't want to share it, they can just like and unlike the item."
How is spending our valuable time on your site point farming? How is giving YOUR SITE a promotion through FB point farming? Almost everyone reached daily limits on one thing or another.

starting and participating in nonsensical forum discussions like "Let's count up to 5,000", etc...; making posts reported as spam; this will be deemed point farming
Fair enough on the spam thing but with the Let's Count threads there are like 5,000 replies in them. Almost everyone probably posted in one when starting out on the site.

I guess if we vote 'no' in the poll we are also point farmers. And possibly if the people deciding who is point farming personally dislike the applicant.

With these rules, pretty much everyone on the site is a point farmer.
06/23/2013
Contributor: indiechick indiechick
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
"liking", "rating", etc... are small priced activities that won't reach 500 points threshold. Reviews of the GCs, wipes, batteries, free gifts - is a different issue. What was the motivation on posting reviews for these items? ... more
Also fred I have written reviews on Wipes because I had a batch of them that were drastically different from the ones I'd received in the past. I wrote a review on the bags because I use them daily for storage and the hold a significant amount of weight and wanted people to understand that. I have had interactions with people below that specific review that people were excited that they could use it to hold so many toys. And I did a review on the cock ring because many of the ones that I saw were so negative, but my boyfriend loves it.


Should I be punished for writing a review that you gave the community permission to write? If you did not want reviews on these items why were we allowed to write them? And why do you think it is okay to punish us for doing so?

Were points an added bonus? Yes of course they were. But I saw a need for my postings so I made them! That's it and to be punished for such things is entirely absurd. I have done nothing but try to help EF in the last few days and feel that this is punishment for that.
06/23/2013
Contributor: evanescentowl evanescentowl
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
"liking", "rating", etc... are small priced activities that won't reach 500 points threshold. Reviews of the GCs, wipes, batteries, free gifts - is a different issue. What was the motivation on posting reviews for these items? ... more
I would like to point out that if you reviewed just ONE of those items, all the points from your account will be automatically erased, unless you reviewed them prior to the big point change.

I reviewed the edenfantasy wipes when I was still a student. It was my second or third review (that being said I've only done six so far. I have a ton of items left I can still review), and it was an exercise so my mentor could directly see my writing process, and so I could use the standard template.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Titty Sprinkles Titty Sprinkles
Quote:
Originally posted by Titty Sprinkles
"-publishing a large number of reviews in a short period of time; unless clear proof of the product ownership by the author is established"
Fred u can come to my crib. I'll show you how I live. Seriously what do you want me to do, ... more
Also: In amnesty week pretty much everyone posted a ton of reviews. You gave them the incentive for this.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Fred Petrenko Fred Petrenko
(EdenFantasys)
Quote:
Originally posted by indiechick
When I first joined eden, know one made me aware of what point farming meant. While I have never had a point ban placed on me, a friend made me aware of what it was and that I should be careful. I have had no issues every with this company because ... more
I understand and appreciate your efforts and everyone who supports Eden and still believes in it. I do need to be strict though. You cannot believe what people do and how many ways they have found to exploit the system. This is why I think the only way would be to look into details of each case and make an individual decision. It is obvious when you see a quality account with minor temptations and blatant abuse.
06/23/2013
Contributor: No-nita No-nita
Quote:
Originally posted by SMichelle
Also -- "
- publishing a large number of reviews in a short period of time; unless clear proof of the product ownership by the author is established" isn't exactly fair.

I am a fast writer, especially when writing about items ... more
This. I mean, Fred, you could go through my purchase history and find that almost every item I've reviewed has been purhcased from here, but I've sat for a couple hours and knocked out a week's worth of reviews in that time. It bothers me immensely to hear it said that "publishing a large number of reviews in a short time" is suspicious behavior. Reviews with a max word limit of 800 words do not take 6 hours to write, Fred.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Titty Sprinkles Titty Sprinkles
"Here, have a Double Point Week. Everyone will write a ton of reviews and it will be AWESOME..... lol just kidding guys, I decided a week later that it was a stupid decision and you were all just point farming!"

If we're point farming then can u delete all our reviews? please and thank? I can publish them on a blogg where I have all the rights.
06/23/2013
Contributor: No-nita No-nita
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
I understand and appreciate your efforts and everyone who supports Eden and still believes in it. I do need to be strict though. You cannot believe what people do and how many ways they have found to exploit the system. This is why I think the only ... more
Where is this reconsideration form you mentioned btw? Because I just received 3000 points from SexIs articles I wrote several days before you changed the system, and that's on top of the $100 worth of points I had accumulated from reviewing and submitting articles beforehand. I will fill out this form but I am extremely concerned that you are going to use what you said in your first post (writing a lot in a short amount of time is suspicious, etc) to dismiss me and my case, which is silly.

I wrote a lot because I like writing and, at the time, was passionate about the idea of contributing to this company and making a name for myself here. If you are GENUINE in saying that you will look over each contributor's submissions to the website, then I will fill out this form, but "submitting lots of content", when it is quality content that the person worked hard on - and did not meet or surpass the daily points limit for (ie I submitted 2 reviews per day, but 1 or 2 sexis articles per day instead of the 5 allowed) ... that does not constitute abuse.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Fred Petrenko Fred Petrenko
(EdenFantasys)
Quote:
Originally posted by Titty Sprinkles
"-publishing a large number of reviews in a short period of time; unless clear proof of the product ownership by the author is established"
Fred u can come to my crib. I'll show you how I live. Seriously what do you want me to do, ... more
Again, the question is not which activity is point farming and which is not. The magnitude is what matters. The 500 points abuse threshold was established based on the analysis of the average quality contributor.
06/23/2013
Contributor: No-nita No-nita
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
I understand and appreciate your efforts and everyone who supports Eden and still believes in it. I do need to be strict though. You cannot believe what people do and how many ways they have found to exploit the system. This is why I think the only ... more
"A quality account with minor temptations and blatant abuse" - what does this even mean, Fred? When someone uses the point system as you have laid it out to them by submitting two QUALITY reviews per day, or several SexIs articles per day up to the limit, how is that abuse. I don't see it. What I see is you trying to make excuses not to give people what they are owed.
06/23/2013
Contributor: PropertyOfPotter PropertyOfPotter
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
Again, the question is not which activity is point farming and which is not. The magnitude is what matters. The 500 points abuse threshold was established based on the analysis of the average quality contributor.
I would appreciate it, Fred, if you would reply to my posts as well. Thank you.
06/23/2013
Contributor: ImaGodiva ImaGodiva
Hoping I didn't disqualify myself, by voting on this non-sex related thread.

To have allowed all of these actions, and now say they weren't condoned and could even lead to the loss of a large amount of accumulated points, is expecting your customers to have been mindreaders.

People need to know what is expected ahead of time and not have rules change retroactively afterward. It's like if I allowed my 9 year-old to play video games every morning before school, then one day grounded him for having done so. Even he would understand how unfair that would be. Believe me, he would understand, lol.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Fred Petrenko Fred Petrenko
(EdenFantasys)
Quote:
Originally posted by No-nita
Where is this reconsideration form you mentioned btw? Because I just received 3000 points from SexIs articles I wrote several days before you changed the system, and that's on top of the $100 worth of points I had accumulated from reviewing and ... more
There is no form yet. If we reach the consensus, I will open it up. If the majority will think it is unfair deal - there won't be a deal.
06/23/2013
Contributor: voenne voenne
I'm confused. By restoring points, do you mean restoring the original use of points? If someone doesn't submit a claim, they keep their points, but then they're subject to the new rules you put in place this week?

While I agree with cracking down on point farming, I don't agree with this entirely. By saying it's point farming if you reach the daily allotment, that just sounds pretty silly. Just lower the limit if you want to decrease the amount people are using this feature for points.

I just see this as more reason to try to take away people's points. It's not fair to take this with an "all or nothing" approach. If someone has saved up a lot of points through honest, hard work, and also fulfilled their daily task allotments in order to save up, this would be taken against them, and their points would be deleted? That's ridiculous.

I want to see EF strengthen it's policies, and I'm happy to offer suggestions, but you have to try to see this from your customer's perspectives. Yes, this is your company, but you would be nothing without your customers. So, please, let's work together. Don't turn this into a dictatorship.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Gdom Gdom
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
"liking", "rating", etc... are small priced activities that won't reach 500 points threshold. Reviews of the GCs, wipes, batteries, free gifts - is a different issue. What was the motivation on posting reviews for these items? ... more
I actually wrote a review of the wipes recently because I didn't see any other reviews with detailed information on the ingredients (particularly with respect to the skall possibility for potential allergic reactions to some of the components). I knew that information is something I'd have wanted before using the wipes myself, existing reviews didn't seem to have that information, and I went and did a significant amount of technical outside research to provide useful new information to potential shoppers.

That's not to say that there aren't plenty of abusive reviews on the types of products you mentioned, but it's not as clear cut as "all reviews of wipes and free gifts are spam/farming."

Also, regarding the the "500 points or more" thing: what's the relevant timeframe? 500 points since a user first joined? In that case, longtime members will have certainly accumulated 500 points via forum responses, etc. Or would it just be 500 points out of the points the user has right now?
06/23/2013
Contributor: Titty Sprinkles Titty Sprinkles
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
Again, the question is not which activity is point farming and which is not. The magnitude is what matters. The 500 points abuse threshold was established based on the analysis of the average quality contributor.
OK thank you for the detailed response.
How do I prove I own an item? (other than letting you come to my crib and me showing you how I live.)
06/23/2013
Contributor: voenne voenne
Quote:
Originally posted by ImaGodiva
Hoping I didn't disqualify myself, by voting on this non-sex related thread.

To have allowed all of these actions, and now say they weren't condoned and could even lead to the loss of a large amount of accumulated points, is expecting ... more
Agreed with your story comparison!
06/23/2013
Contributor: Fred Petrenko Fred Petrenko
(EdenFantasys)
Quote:
Originally posted by ImaGodiva
Hoping I didn't disqualify myself, by voting on this non-sex related thread.

To have allowed all of these actions, and now say they weren't condoned and could even lead to the loss of a large amount of accumulated points, is expecting ... more
We are all adults here and all of us have a sense of what is right and what is not so. Any rules can be abused. Not all of us do this. I would like to be in the community that is sustainable, responsible, and fun. Not a community that cheats, screams, and demands.
06/23/2013
Contributor: No-nita No-nita
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
There is no form yet. If we reach the consensus, I will open it up. If the majority will think it is unfair deal - there won't be a deal.
Right now this thread is trying to negotiate parts of what you're saying the reconsideration form/deal will entail. A lot of people have left Eden already because they did not think you would make good on your word, and when you include vague phrases like "quality accounts with blatant abuse" and "if you submit a lot in a short amount of time" (despite users simply obeying the limits that YOU set into place) then it becomes very difficult to trust you.

The idea is fair IN THEORY - What I propose is that you create a reconsideration form, but instead of looking at posting frequency and punishing people for using the guidelines that you set for them, you look at the quality of the content they put toward the website. Reviews that no one put any effort into are very easily separated from those that are informative and helpful. Consider community votes and comments on those reviews and articles as well. If you do this, then the reconsideration form will be a lot fairer an idea.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Titty Sprinkles Titty Sprinkles
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
There is no form yet. If we reach the consensus, I will open it up. If the majority will think it is unfair deal - there won't be a deal.
Well Fred, I don't know what "proposal to the community" means in Russia, but usually it means "taking input and considering what the people have to say"

It usually doesn't mean "this is an ultimatum, take it or leave it"

I also don't understand why you are asking for opinions if it is indeed an ultimatum like you're saying.
"If the majority will think it is unfair deal - there won't be a deal."
What is the point of even asking us what we think here if you don't value our opinions?
06/23/2013