Point Reconsideration proposal.

Contributor: snowminx snowminx
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
We are not being formal here. Because, if we were, the TOS has clearly stated that the rules are subject to change. They did.

I am trying to be fair here, not formal. Being fair should apply to me and to you (contributor).

If you say ... more
TOS can be changed at any time, but it wasn't, it's still the same now. How can you judge the actions of someone prechange (before your ideas of point farming where layed out in writing) and just expect us to KNOW them before now?

Okay let me put this in how you might understand-

Say you're playing a game with someone. There are set rules and you play the game. You do everything you're supported to in those guidelines and then after you win the person you are playing with say "oh wait, I'm adding more rules now so you didn't really win anything because you were cheating the whole time!"

I am the one being fair here, not you.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Fred Petrenko Fred Petrenko
Quote:
Originally posted by indiechick
Then the punishment has already occurred they lost their jobs, why are we being punished when we didn't know we did anything wrong?
Indiechick, this is not a punishment. This is an unfortunate, tough, sad, but necessary steps to fix it. It is as much painful to you as it is to me.
06/23/2013
Contributor: indiechick indiechick
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
Indiechick, this is not a punishment. This is an unfortunate, tough, sad, but necessary steps to fix it. It is as much painful to you as it is to me.
Fix as in moving forward. We cannot change what has happened. You are only hurting people by retroactively trying to fix something that NONE of us including yourself had control over. So it should never have happened in the first place. But it did. It will never happen again, but to punish those of us who were not in charge isn't fair.
06/23/2013
Contributor: snowminx snowminx
Quote:
Originally posted by snowminx
TOS can be changed at any time, but it wasn't, it's still the same now. How can you judge the actions of someone prechange (before your ideas of point farming where layed out in writing) and just expect us to KNOW them before now?

Okay ... more
Okay now here's another analogy.

Say you're driving down the road going 45 miles and hour (the speed limit). Now lets say they have cameras around there and they catch you doing that.

Now lets say that laws change and the next week there is a new sign up that say the speed limit is 35 miles and hour. Are they legally able to take you to jail because they have you on camera going 45 a week ago before the speed limit changed?

The answer is no. Yes they have the right to change the laws and the speed limit but no they can't punish you because you did something before the new law was in place.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Titty Sprinkles Titty Sprinkles
Quote:
Originally posted by snowminx
TOS can be changed at any time, but it wasn't, it's still the same now. How can you judge the actions of someone prechange (before your ideas of point farming where layed out in writing) and just expect us to KNOW them before now?

Okay ... more
"Say you're playing a game with someone. There are set rules and you play the game. You do everything you're supported to in those guidelines and then after you win the person you are playing with say "oh wait, I'm adding more rules now so you didn't really win anything because you were cheating the whole time!"

Here at EdenFantasys the only game we play is Calvinball
06/23/2013
Contributor: LuckyLady LuckyLady
We are worth 85% less than we were last week with these new rules. The people who have contributed 2,549 reviews to your business, driven activity to your website, brought you business through our blogs, tweets, and activity. And we are now worth 85% less for our contribution. That, is not fair.
06/23/2013
Contributor: indiechick indiechick
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
I am considering (no decision has been made yet) to restore points to the honest contributors. Would you say this is a fair deal or not?

You will be asked to submit a reconsideration request. It is optional. If you chose not to participate, ... more
And it really feels like I am being punished for being active in the community in a way that I was pushed to be. I have never taken advantage I have never intentionally point farmed. I have been actively involved but am 100% certain that you will find a way to delete the points of as many people as necessary and that is shameful and very hurtful to someone who has done nothing but try to pick up broken pieces because while everyone else told me to walk away I didn't listen and i feel like I am am being burned again. put yourself in my shoes (which are likely of equal IQ) Just sayin'. And think of how you would feel.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Chastity Darling Chastity Darling
I propose that you give us until the end of this month to use what points we have earned to make purchases according to the rules prior to the uproar. That would be fair. After that change to the 15% system or whatever you wish. This would pacify the community, for the most part. After the end of the month have all of your changes in place so those that stay are not blind-sided again. And perhaps consider a warning post, say a week prior, to any significant changes so everyone has a chance to wrap their head around it before you end up with another mess like this one.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Mwar Mwar
It's pretty easy to see my reviews are legit: they're detailed and have photos. I can crank them out when I'm on a roll. I like to write.

I don't see how I could be considered delinquent. I've been abroad and moving, so there have been weeks (close to 2 months) where I could barely access the internet, let alone point farm. Essentially, if I get declined, there really isn't any hope for any other big contributors.
06/23/2013
Contributor: LuckyLady LuckyLady
Quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLady
We are worth 85% less than we were last week with these new rules. The people who have contributed 2,549 reviews to your business, driven activity to your website, brought you business through our blogs, tweets, and activity. And we are now worth 85% ... more
excuse me the 2549 was site reviews not product reviews, I recant that number and replace it with "thousands of reviews"
06/23/2013
Contributor: No-nita No-nita
Quote:
Originally posted by Mwar
It's pretty easy to see my reviews are legit: they're detailed and have photos. I can crank them out when I'm on a roll. I like to write.

I don't see how I could be considered delinquent. I've been abroad and moving, so ... more
This reminds me! Regarding photos -
Not everyone owns a camera - I don't have my own - but, if it would help to convince Fred that I own the toys I reviewed (that do not appear in my purchase history) I will borrow one from a friend and send those pictures along. I do not know what else we can do to convince Fred that our submissions were legitimate and took time and effort to contribute.
06/23/2013
Contributor: PropertyOfPotter PropertyOfPotter
Quote:
Originally posted by No-nita
This reminds me! Regarding photos -
Not everyone owns a camera - I don't have my own - but, if it would help to convince Fred that I own the toys I reviewed (that do not appear in my purchase history) I will borrow one from a friend and send ... more
I would first look into your order history. If he's concerned about these products NOT coming from Eden, I don't think it's going to matter if you have photos or not; though photos will show that you actually have the item.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Fred Petrenko Fred Petrenko
Guys, the situation as I see it is simple enough.

If you're confident in your submissions and activities - you will be better off submitting the request. If you're not - then don't, but if you didn't request, then "forever hold your piece" going forward.

The decision will not be and cannot be objective - it will be purely subjective.

On a game parallel. This wasn't a game. This is an attempt to create a community: self supporting, positive, encouraging. Just because we are having this conversation today tell me - we are not there yet.

I will continue this efforts and you can be part of it or not. Your choice.
06/23/2013
Contributor: wrmbreze wrmbreze
I think what you should do is to not punish your community for the past. Set up a clear and concise set of rules for how it will be going forward.
06/23/2013
Contributor: snowminx snowminx
Quote:
Originally posted by No-nita
This reminds me! Regarding photos -
Not everyone owns a camera - I don't have my own - but, if it would help to convince Fred that I own the toys I reviewed (that do not appear in my purchase history) I will borrow one from a friend and send ... more
He wants a picture with you (your face in it) sitting at a table with your toys all scattered out in front of you, holding your ID in one hand and a current newspaper (with the day's date) both in clear site. Anything less make you a point farmer you no good no-nita!
06/23/2013
Contributor: No-nita No-nita
Again: I am 100% behind the idea of a reconsideration form, assuming that

1) You do not penalize people for using the points system as it was intended to function, unless someone was very clearly spamming things like emoticons or one-word comments.

2) If you cannot verify that a reviewer has an item they reviewed, ask them to send along pictures, or if that is not possible and the review in question is REALLY shady, deduct that amount from their total points but do NOT erase all the other points earned

3) Let us know what else we can do to help prove our cases. I understand that EF is in an unfortunate situation right now. Many of us feel extremely slighted by this and some of the comments you have made toward us, but in order to be able to utilize what I believe I rightfully earned, I'll work with you on that to the best of my ability.
06/23/2013
Contributor: indiechick indiechick
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
Guys, the situation as I see it is simple enough.

If you're confident in your submissions and activities - you will be better off submitting the request. If you're not - then don't, but if you didn't request, then "forever ... more
I have fought very hard to be a part of it thank you. But worry that opportunities that were pushed on us. Will limit my chances of getting my points
06/23/2013
Contributor: No-nita No-nita
Quote:
Originally posted by snowminx
He wants a picture with you (your face in it) sitting at a table with your toys all scattered out in front of you, holding your ID in one hand and a current newspaper (with the day's date) both in clear site. Anything less make you a point farmer ... more
LOL! Snowminx I would hope that just a plain picture would suffice, but the way things have been going, I would not be entirely surprised if these were the demands...
06/23/2013
Contributor: Chastity Darling Chastity Darling
Any chance you would consider my proposal?? Fred??
06/23/2013
Contributor: Mwar Mwar
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
Guys, the situation as I see it is simple enough.

If you're confident in your submissions and activities - you will be better off submitting the request. If you're not - then don't, but if you didn't request, then "forever ... more
So how does one submit a reconsideration? Do we shoot a message to stormy?
06/23/2013
Contributor: PropertyOfPotter PropertyOfPotter
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
Guys, the situation as I see it is simple enough.

If you're confident in your submissions and activities - you will be better off submitting the request. If you're not - then don't, but if you didn't request, then "forever ... more
Though I feel confident in my own contributions, that doesn't mean you won't instantly remove my points because I went through a suspension a couple months ago. You clearly stated in your first message that those of us who have been through a suspension would not be allowed to get our points back.

So, feeling secure in my own actions or not, how am I to know that you're not going to instantly remove them for that simple fact?
06/23/2013
Contributor: LuckyLady LuckyLady
Quote:
Originally posted by snowminx
He wants a picture with you (your face in it) sitting at a table with your toys all scattered out in front of you, holding your ID in one hand and a current newspaper (with the day's date) both in clear site. Anything less make you a point farmer ... more
lol, maybe that's what Flash Your Stash was put in place for.
06/23/2013
Contributor: surreptitious surreptitious
Quote:
Originally posted by No-nita
LOL! Snowminx I would hope that just a plain picture would suffice, but the way things have been going, I would not be entirely surprised if these were the demands...
I was asked to send in ID when my account was suspended. I and one of my roommates complied - the other declined and closed down her account. I would also be interested in an answer to the question of what will happen to those of us who were suspended despite having contributed incredibly good, solid content.

I have posted in the games threads from time to time, but not since I was a very new member have I EVER allowed myself to do so before I had posted ten times in meaningful threads to which I could contribute value. I don't believe that points should be provided for the games section of the forum (and have said as much multiples times). I provide plenty of meaningful content (including two reviews a day, at times) and don't stop doing so simply because I no longer receive points for it.
06/23/2013
Contributor: No-nita No-nita
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
Guys, the situation as I see it is simple enough.

If you're confident in your submissions and activities - you will be better off submitting the request. If you're not - then don't, but if you didn't request, then "forever ... more
Request submitted. I have PM'd you.
06/23/2013
Contributor: pootpootpoot pootpootpoot
I would be really nervous about being asked to prove I owned all my reviewed products. I joined the site over a year ago, and several of my first reviews (the lower-quality ones, as I had no experience with such things) were for toiletries. I no longer have in my possession my test-tube bubble bath set, took no pictures of it, and received it as a gift and thus have no receipt. Reviewers who don't have pictures also may no longer have toys that broke, toiletries that got used up, lingerie they outgrew or single use items (condoms and batteries come to mind).
06/23/2013
Contributor: No-nita No-nita
Quote:
Originally posted by Mwar
So how does one submit a reconsideration? Do we shoot a message to stormy?
I PM'd Fred directly, but if I have to forward a request to Stormy that would be helpful to know as well
06/23/2013
Contributor: Fred Petrenko Fred Petrenko
Quote:
Originally posted by No-nita
Request submitted. I have PM'd you.
No-nita, the official request form will be posted tomorrow.
06/23/2013
Contributor: No-nita No-nita
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
No-nita, the official request form will be posted tomorrow.
Alrighty, thanks for letting us know.
06/23/2013
Contributor: Fred Petrenko Fred Petrenko
Quote:
Originally posted by pootpootpoot
I would be really nervous about being asked to prove I owned all my reviewed products. I joined the site over a year ago, and several of my first reviews (the lower-quality ones, as I had no experience with such things) were for toiletries. I no ... more
No need to worry. We understand different situations, different products.
06/23/2013
Contributor: snowminx snowminx
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Petrenko
Guys, the situation as I see it is simple enough.

If you're confident in your submissions and activities - you will be better off submitting the request. If you're not - then don't, but if you didn't request, then "forever ... more
I feel confident in my own actions until you screwed us all over and then told us nothing is changing so I edited two of my reviews (since you basically stole the money I got from them). Now I can't edit them back and I guess I'm a "point farmer" because you like lying to people and switching up demands we don't know about.

To be honest I just think this is a trap. I think everyone that submits one of these will just have all their points taken away with some crab reason and then we can't do anything about it. It's your way of trying to look like you're compromising with us but really stealing the money we earned from before at the same time

Case and point- How exactly are you going to go through EVERYONES history, read through all of their reviews (no having a long review doesn't just automatically make it better than everyone's elses), and read through all of their posts with very few people on staff? Are you just going to go "on hold" with everything else on the site to do this? If not I don't see how this would be done within a few months.
06/23/2013