The New Intimacy

Virginity - losing it?

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Contributor: Miss Jane Miss Jane
The backstory:
One of my friends is a virgin, and ready for the world of sex. She wants to lose it to someone who cares about her, wants it to be special, and generally just doesn't want to get taken advantage of. Since she's been straight other that her relationship with me in the past, I didn't use a strap-on on her when we were together. (read: I didn't want her to look back on it with me being the only girl in her life and think 'I wish my first time being penetrated had been with a man'.).

Now I'm worried these other guys in her life are going to screw it up, and she's expressing interest in me again. I've mentioned it to a few people and gotten different replies - some think it's not losing your virginity if it's a toy, and others think that penetration is de-virginizing, no matter what it is.

Also, I mean in the emotional sense of the word, not the physical sense. If I were talking about the physical sense, I'd have lost my virginity when I fell and broke my hymen when I was a child

So what do you think? Is having sex with a strap-on de-virginizing, or not?
Answers (private voting - your screen name will NOT appear in the results):
It's only losing your virginity if it's a penetration by a penis
76  (19%)
It's losing your virginity no matter what it is - it could be a cucumber for all I care
41  (10%)
If it's supposed to represent a penis, or go inside like one, it counts!
75  (18%)
I'm unsure/it depends on the situation
218  (53%)
Total votes: 410
Poll is closed
01/02/2010
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Contributor: Sir Sir
None of these express my opinion on that. A person losing their virginity is with one or more partners, no penetration needed whatsoever. Sex can be done in many ways, not just with penetration of something coming off of the pelvis. For me, virginity depends on how intimate the situation is between the people involved.
01/02/2010
Contributor: Miss Jane Miss Jane
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
None of these express my opinion on that. A person losing their virginity is with one or more partners, no penetration needed whatsoever. Sex can be done in many ways, not just with penetration of something coming off of the pelvis. For me, ... more
That's kind of my feeling as well. In my opinion, we had sex/made love/whatever, even though there was no penetration. But I didn't 'take her cherry' so to speak, so she feels she still has her virginity.
01/02/2010
Contributor: Sir Sir
Quote:
Originally posted by Miss Jane
That's kind of my feeling as well. In my opinion, we had sex/made love/whatever, even though there was no penetration. But I didn't 'take her cherry' so to speak, so she feels she still has her virginity.
Well, that's interesting. Like you said in your post though, the hymen could be broken by anything, so that's not even relevant! The person you're talking about may not even have it and not know it!
01/02/2010
Contributor: Miss Jane Miss Jane
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
Well, that's interesting. Like you said in your post though, the hymen could be broken by anything, so that's not even relevant! The person you're talking about may not even have it and not know it!
Yeah, we talked about it and she's unsure whether she has one or not. But she keeps going on about losing her virginity (which I don't think is something to just 'decided to lose' anyway,but that's another argument), and if she wants penetration and I'd rather it be from me, someone who loves her and cares about her, than the guy she's currently fooling around with who I believe is just out for that virginity.

Wow that was the longest sentence ever, I hope that makes some modicum of sense.. even though quite frankly this whole subject has me confused.
01/02/2010
Contributor: Sir Sir
Quote:
Originally posted by Miss Jane
Yeah, we talked about it and she's unsure whether she has one or not. But she keeps going on about losing her virginity (which I don't think is something to just 'decided to lose' anyway,but that's another argument), and if she ... more
It isn't something to go on about, I agree. I've actually had many discussions with my little one about this, since I did have hers. It's not something that you "decide" to do, like becoming a professor or doctor. "I'm going to grow up and lose my virginity!!!" It doesn't work like that, I agree. It just happens, and hopefully out of love. If she doesn't want it from you, you cannot really do anything about that. It's not right of you either to try to force it on her and say, "Well, I don't want you losing it to someone who doesn't care about you, I want you losing it to me because I do," when she is being very gender discriminant rather than looking at the actual situation and what she actually wants. Does she know that this person only wants her for one thing, or are you looking at it negatively because you want it?
01/02/2010
Contributor: Raven Raven
I chose "unsure." IMHO, it’s all in how you look at it. These days there seem to be many kinds of virgins, from the “I've never been touched at all” virgins to the “Oh, I’ve been touched a lot, just never poked there” virgins. I, for one, have a hard time viewing a female who has engaged in mutual masturbation, oral sex and anal sex as virginal, but that’s just me. Does virginity have to do with plugging a hole or the sexual experience? Again, it's all in your outlook.
01/02/2010
Contributor: Miss Jane Miss Jane
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
It isn't something to go on about, I agree. I've actually had many discussions with my little one about this, since I did have hers. It's not something that you "decide" to do, like becoming a professor or doctor. ... more
She's up in the air about the entire thing. It's a big mess: I suppose I should elaborate a bit: she's in a relationship, but the guy in question in the guy she's cheating on her boyfriend with. Their relationship is strictly friends-with-benefits. I don't doubt that he cares about her as a person, but he's definitely in it for that one thing, and I'm trying to talk some sense into her about the fact that she needs to settle her relationship issues before trying to figure out who to have sex with.

It's not that I'm rearing to have a go at her, I just don't want her hurt if he's absolutely bound and determined to lose it soon. I'm trying to talk her out of the notion - not off sex entirely, because hey, sex is good thing - but of having it at all when she's in such a sketchy relationship predicament: to sit down and think about it instead of being rash.

The "what entitles virginity loss" question just popped up in our conversation, and I was curious as to what people thought on the matter since I've been getting varying comments from other people and mixed messages from her.
01/02/2010
Contributor: Miss Jane Miss Jane
Quote:
Originally posted by Raven
I chose "unsure." IMHO, it’s all in how you look at it. These days there seem to be many kinds of virgins, from the “I've never been touched at all” virgins to the “Oh, I’ve been touched a lot, just never poked there” virgins. I, for ... more
I have a feeling it's always going to be one of those types of things, especially with different generations, sexual orientations, and sexual knowledge. When I think virginal, I think innocence. But it seems like the word is changing definition - like you said, there are so many "I've done everything but vaginal intercourse" virgins.
01/02/2010
Contributor: Raven Raven
Quote:
Originally posted by Miss Jane
I have a feeling it's always going to be one of those types of things, especially with different generations, sexual orientations, and sexual knowledge. When I think virginal, I think innocence. But it seems like the word is changing definition - ... more
Exactly! It's not so black and white anymore.
01/02/2010
Contributor: Miss Jane Miss Jane
I should have just made this an open-ended question, instead of a poll. Also, I'd like to just mention that I'm just asking out of curiosity/for the sake of discussion rather than to try to change someone's mind/prove a point/etc.
01/02/2010
Contributor: El-Jaro El-Jaro
For some reason this can be a really big can of worms.
For reference: Chasing Amy. Check it out, good movie despite Ben Afflack.

Just about everyone can be offended by anyone else's opinion on this.
Those with a penis will say one thing and feel that if someone disagrees with them, they're diminishing the value of their penis.
Those w/o a penis will question why one is necessary.

Then you have the physical vs. emotional penetration.

it's a mess.
01/02/2010
Contributor: Sir Sir
Quote:
Originally posted by Miss Jane
She's up in the air about the entire thing. It's a big mess: I suppose I should elaborate a bit: she's in a relationship, but the guy in question in the guy she's cheating on her boyfriend with. Their relationship is strictly ... more
Well, if she's using that person for the same thing, then what's the problem? They're both using each other, it's not like he's just using her. She's using him for it, too. This is really odd, why is she cheating on her boyfriend with this person and where are you coming into the picture? It is a big mess indeed.

I agree with thinking about it beforehand rather than just jumping into it, because it is a mess. And I understand your asking the question completely. Many people have different views on it. I've actually heard of a thing called a "techno" virgin, where, like Raven said, they've done everything but vaginal. This confuses me in the case of men. HAHA!
01/02/2010
Contributor: Miss Jane Miss Jane
Quote:
Originally posted by El-Jaro
For some reason this can be a really big can of worms.
For reference: Chasing Amy. Check it out, good movie despite Ben Afflack.

Just about everyone can be offended by anyone else's opinion on this.
Those with a penis will say one ... more
Pretty much, yeah. It's definitely one of those things that means different things to different people.
01/02/2010
Contributor: Miss Jane Miss Jane
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
Well, if she's using that person for the same thing, then what's the problem? They're both using each other, it's not like he's just using her. She's using him for it, too. This is really odd, why is she cheating on her ... more
Exactly. One. big. weird. mess.
01/02/2010
Contributor: El-Jaro El-Jaro
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
Well, if she's using that person for the same thing, then what's the problem? They're both using each other, it's not like he's just using her. She's using him for it, too. This is really odd, why is she cheating on her ... more
Techno virgin?

That's just 15 different kinds of weird to me...
01/03/2010
Contributor: Liz2 Liz2
Virginity can mean so many things. There are girls that have not had vaginal sex but give blow jobs and see themselves as virgins.
Historically loosing ones virginity meant breaking your hymen through intercourse. (This was so important in some cultures, that the girl would sometimes provide a red substance for the occasion). Most hymens are broken through sports, accidents, use of tampons and yes toys. I have no idea when mine was broken but it was prior to having a cock in my vagina.
To me the question presented has more to do with relationships then virginity.
Also if a girl is penetrated via a strap-on is she a virgin? A dildo?
Other then some guys obsession to taking virgins, what does it all mean anyway?
01/03/2010
Contributor: Saraid Saraid
Since virginity has no medical definition I refuse to even acknowledge it. Which is why I didn't tell my current partner he was my first sexual partner until we had been together for 5 months.
01/03/2010
Contributor: Backseat Boohoo Backseat Boohoo
Quote:
Originally posted by Raven
I chose "unsure." IMHO, it’s all in how you look at it. These days there seem to be many kinds of virgins, from the “I've never been touched at all” virgins to the “Oh, I’ve been touched a lot, just never poked there” virgins. I, for ... more
This is pretty much how I feel about it. To be quite honest, the concept of virginity is so subjective that I just try not to pay too much attention to it. If you think you're a virgin, you're a virgin, if you don't think you're a virgin, you're not a virgin--it's all in our heads, anyway. I considered myself "not a virgin" when I had my first sexual experience with a woman, no penetration, and I don't think much more about it.
01/04/2010
Contributor: LikeSunshineDust LikeSunshineDust
Quote:
Originally posted by Backseat Boohoo
This is pretty much how I feel about it. To be quite honest, the concept of virginity is so subjective that I just try not to pay too much attention to it. If you think you're a virgin, you're a virgin, if you don't think you're a ... more
I agree. It's really subjective. Either way though I totally think you should you should have sex with her. You obviously care about each other enough for it to be special even if you don't have a penis.
01/07/2010
Contributor: Bellastorme Bellastorme
IMO virginity is the medical stand point, it is the clearest point so its what I go by. It is when ANYTHING brakes the hymen not just a penis or toy. It can be broken from a tampon or even sports. Once the hymen is broke medically she is no longer a virgin if she has had intercourse or not. I think if you are questioning it talk with her and their is nothing wrong with waiting its always best to wait if you or her has underlying issues. Best Safe wishes in all you do.
01/18/2010
Contributor: Lynk Lynk
In my personal opinion I think virginity is taken when you reach the point past "fooling around". A close straight male friend of mine believes that sex has occurred when an orgasm occurs, because there is obviously a decent amount of sexual interaction taking place when that happens.

I'm not sure I agree with that entirely. In my opinion, if you're naked and going at it with someone whether that be vaginal, anal, or oral, and with fingers, toys, mouth, or penis, you've had sex. You are no longer a virgin.

The reason I add nudity in there, is that it is a different state of exposure and vulnerability. You are giving more of yourself to a person by being naked as opposed to fondling through or underneath clothing.

Although in some instances I believe that nudity is necessary. Another friend of mine always said that losing your virginity is about "taking it all the way" whether that's a straight couple or gay couple. Which is kind of the same concept I described above. Naked, going at it, getting into it.

I mean, there are tons of gay people who have NEVER had straight sex. Does that make us all virgins forever? I think not.
02/01/2010
Contributor: Lynk Lynk
Quote:
Originally posted by Lynk
In my personal opinion I think virginity is taken when you reach the point past "fooling around". A close straight male friend of mine believes that sex has occurred when an orgasm occurs, because there is obviously a decent amount of ... more
I meant to write, "I think in some instances nudity is NOT necessary."

It depends on how much emotional and physical closeness takes place.
02/01/2010
Contributor: KinkyShay KinkyShay
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
None of these express my opinion on that. A person losing their virginity is with one or more partners, no penetration needed whatsoever. Sex can be done in many ways, not just with penetration of something coming off of the pelvis. For me, ... more
I agree. Cucumbers aren't sex. That's masturbation.
02/03/2010
Contributor: Naughty Student Naughty Student
Quote:
Originally posted by Lynk
In my personal opinion I think virginity is taken when you reach the point past "fooling around". A close straight male friend of mine believes that sex has occurred when an orgasm occurs, because there is obviously a decent amount of ... more
Its funny bcs sex can occur without orgasm, especially for women. I guess everyone has there own definition of what sex means.

I agree with you about the interaction between two poeple. If two people are engaged in sexual activities they are having sex even if there is no penetration involved.

As for the poll I think that if a person is penetrated by someone else either a flesh penis or a fake one they are no longer virgins. I dont think men's penis's should be devalued but I also don't believe that lesbien relationships should be devalued either.

So I understand where you are coming from in terms of gay men not having had straight sex.

Love this post by the way Jane, hope things work out for that girl.
02/04/2010
Contributor: Miss Alice Miss Alice
I am more than a little appalled that over one third of the people polled in this sex positive community believe penetration (and even exclusively penile penetration) is the only way an individual can lose their virginity! The idea is so dated, patriarchal, archaic, and really just UGH.

Seriously? What about men who don't have penises? How does their partner lose their virginity? What about lesbians? Are gold star lesbians virgins? What about people who simply don't like or can't have intercourse? If they do everything BUT intercourse (rimming, oral sex, butt naked humping, etc), that means they're still virgins? What about women who have broken their hymen in sports like horseback riding? What does that mean?

That's ridiculous. Sex is You + Someone else + A goal of achieving climax. So, if you're having sex with another living thing be it male, female, extraterrestrial alien, or animal (this last one would be nonconsensual sex [rape], but that's sex), whether it involves penetration or not, then you've lost your virginity. Penis and intercourse are completely optional, but certainly not the only way to lose it.
02/16/2010
Contributor: Phoenix77 Phoenix77
I think it's a matter of her definition more then any of ours. If she still thinks of herself as a virgin, then she is, no matter what she's done before, and it's up to her what is going to "take" it.
03/16/2010
Contributor: Miss Cinnamon Miss Cinnamon
I'm actually beginning to dislike the term "virgin". There's too much that's unstable about it as applied to human sexuality, since I feel that each person can only decide his or her own definition of it. I know of people who think that anal sex counts as abstinence, and some individuals who are saving themselves for marriage think that activities such as oral sex do not count as "real" sex. I do not agree with these definitions of virginity, but why should I tell them that they are not virgins? Why should I impose my definition of virginity, pretty much an emotional construct rather than a physical one, on another?

Anyway, to answer the initial question, I agree with Phoenix77. If your friend believes that being penetrated by a strap-on will take her virginity, then it will. If she does not believe it, then it will not.
03/27/2010
Contributor: deceased deceased
We have a giant Mormon community in Hawaii that believes in virginity before marriage. Yhey do not include fellatio, cunnilingus and buttfucking as sexual intercourse. Hence we see some "virgins" in the ER with oral gonorrhea and oral chlamydia, rectal tears and fissures, anal warts, etc.

Intimate acts are sex. Not protecting yourself because you are in "denial" can have deleterious consequences.


You don't need to be penetrated to lose your virginity. People can go their hole lives without being penetrated and not be virgins. Losing virginity is commiting a sexual act with another person. Yes, that includes strap on sex. You lose it to the person wearing the device, not the device. A dildo, a flashlight, etc, has no brain or free will, but people do. Unless its rape.
03/28/2010
Contributor: Luscious Lily Luscious Lily
Quote:
Originally posted by Miss Cinnamon
I'm actually beginning to dislike the term "virgin". There's too much that's unstable about it as applied to human sexuality, since I feel that each person can only decide his or her own definition of it. I know of people who ... more
Well said. I completely agree with this way of thinking about it, and I agree that "virgin" has become a really slippery word. Ask 3 people what it means, and you'll get 7 different answers!
03/28/2010