Do you think stronger gun laws would help reduce gun crimes?

Contributor: P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by namelesschaos
He is misrepresent the results as I said above. Here a link to the full text of the study that number comes from: link

Regardless of what side of the debate your on the authors made no attempt to say 2.5 million lives where saved by guns in ... more
Thank you for the reference. I am in the process of reading every word. (It was on a pro-gun site, but I'm gonna read it and see what it has to say, as it was published in a Northwestern journal.)

Back to the article. I've gotten this far, and it's interesting;

(Actual quote from the article) Thus, many scholars routinely assumed that a large share of violent inter-actions are "mutual combat" involving two blameworthy parties who each may be regarded as both offender and victim. The notion that much violence is one-sided and that many victims of violence are largely blameless is dismissed as naive. Interesting. I do respect some scholars, as I respect people who did the work to get a higher education, although I think the article may be somehow mocking people with large amounts of education. Although the article has not, yet far, told us who these "scholars" are, where they were educated and WHOM the author decides IS a "scholar."

I'm not really impressed with the article so far (it isn't really a "study") but, I'll keep reading.
07/25/2012
Contributor: namelesschaos namelesschaos
Quote:
Originally posted by namelesschaos
He is misrepresent the results as I said above. Here a link to the full text of the study that number comes from: link

Regardless of what side of the debate your on the authors made no attempt to say 2.5 million lives where saved by guns in ... more
Realized after I posted I should have include that is an estimated 2.5 million extrapolated from a survey. Details matter.
07/25/2012
Contributor: P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by namelesschaos
He is misrepresent the results as I said above. Here a link to the full text of the study that number comes from: link

Regardless of what side of the debate your on the authors made no attempt to say 2.5 million lives where saved by guns in ... more
Thanks, but the... article was extremely biased. The article didn't like the evidence that previous studies had found, one of which was that The NCVS estimates imply that about 0.09 of 1% of U.S. households experience a defensive gun use, so the authors simply said, "This can't be valid."

You don't invalidate research because you don't like the results. More propaganda, even if the study DIDN'T say that 2.5 million people 'defended' themselves with guns. (A number I found not only laughable, but propaganda based when I first saw it. Plus I didn't believe it for a minute, as most people logically wouldn't believe it either. As it is, the statement was completely untrue.

PLUS, NO ONE is saying here, "Ban all guns." The main complain is the easy access to automatic and semiautomatic weapons, which people simply don't carry around with them unless they intend some sort of serious mayhem. Anything which is actually a "study" (which this was not, it was a "review of the literature" which is different, as one can draw one's own conclusions, as the authors surely did, and they were extremely pro-gun) does it's own research. Which I didn't see with this article. Plus the place where the article was obtained from was a fairly conservative minded pro-gun website, so I'm not all that impressed.

The site "gunsite.com" seems to spend an inordinate amount of time attacking the well done National Crime Victimization Survey. The site doesn't like what the NCVS says, so they simply dismiss it. THAT isn't logical, scientific, nor what well educated researchers do. The site also seems to take particular issue with what they refer to as "scholars" without defining what "scholar" means to them, and inferring that people with an education shouldn't be listened to. They also seem to like attacking President Obama, so the source of their bias is crystal clear.

But, even THIS review didn't say anywhere near "2.5 million people" prevented their own deaths by carrying firearms, which isn't even the argument is about.

Gun Control doesn't mean NO GUNS. It means "Control over guns and who gets them and Control over what types of guns are readily available." In that case, this part of the argument is moot, as no one is advocating "taking guns out of cold dead hands" in any way.

07/25/2012
Contributor: namelesschaos namelesschaos
I disagree with you that the authors did not do there own research the survey they performed clearly was original research. That doesn't mean it was good research but it unfair to describe the article as merely a review of literature with no original research.

But besides that, yes they are clearly pro-gun but that was part of my point. The original article was biased as is and even they didn't try to make the argument that this many lives where saved per year which just makes the clam that much more absurd. It is a game of telephone, with each person exaggerating the original claim.

And I fully agree that the survey dose noting to say that reasonable limits on guns is a bad idea, only that no gun would be a bad idea. If any thing the result support the notion that hand guns would be sufficient for self defensive purposes, most used hand guns so I don't see how this supports the need for assault weapons for self defense. Also even the authors admit this doesn't say anything about if measure such as background checks are desirable or not.
07/25/2012
Contributor: narwhalfan narwhalfan
Quote:
Originally posted by ghalik
Actually Norway does not have particularly strong gun laws. They have a very large population of hunters that prevent such laws from being passed.

The countries with very restrictive gun laws (for example the UK, which completely bans handguns ... more
^This.
07/28/2012
Contributor: Errant Venture Errant Venture
I've been doing a lot of research on this for the past week, and I was all set to expound my thoughts on the matter, but Ghalik and P'Gell did a good enough job (I'm halfway between gratitude towards them and irritation that I can't show off ). Basically ... actually, I'm just going to provide a Cracked article link , which includes why the 'guns don't kill people' and '2.5 million lives saved' arguments are useless.

As well as some sites on the matter: link , link , link .
07/28/2012
Contributor: Ivy Wilde Ivy Wilde
Some of the European countries with the loosest gun laws have some of the lowest crime rates. I don't think guns are the problems, I think criminals who use guns are the problem.
07/28/2012
Contributor: L&P3040 L&P3040
No gun laws don't need to be changed. It's my right to protect myself from crazies like the idiot in CO. I've seen on here that have said that people don't need to own semi-auto weapons. I HOPE you realize that a semi-auto means you pull the trigger ONCE and it shoots only ONE round not 2 or 3 just 1. The rifle he used is comparable to any other hunting rifle but the main difference is that you can store my rounds in the magazine. WHat you don't see in the media are the countless stories of people with carry permits stopping crime all the time. But if you want stricter gun control keep pushing for it, b/c the criminals don't carry about laws, I've never seen a drug dealer stop selling drugs b/c the were illegal.
07/28/2012
Contributor: Ganconagh Ganconagh
Quote:
Originally posted by ghalik
Actually Norway does not have particularly strong gun laws. They have a very large population of hunters that prevent such laws from being passed.

The countries with very restrictive gun laws (for example the UK, which completely bans handguns ... more
And during that same year, the US death rate from drunk driving was 3.5/100,000. We should heavily restrict cars.
07/31/2012
Contributor: ArmyWife4311 ArmyWife4311
I don't think changing the law will help, people will continue to break any and every law til the end of time.
07/31/2012
Contributor: duff duff
Wont do a thing except piss off gun enthusiest
07/31/2012
Contributor: xilliannax xilliannax
Quote:
Originally posted by Terri69
Do you think stronger gun laws would help reduce gun crimes?
Awww crap, i read that wrong. i meant to vote "no"

I live in a place where 2/3 of people have concealed weapon permits, its where i was born and raised. Ive found that people are more respectful, less violent and theres less crime if people have to worry about a gun in an unseen holster.
08/28/2012