I also like the idea of being allowed to buy ONE toy a month using all points.

And I don't really know what I am talking about. I am just pulling ideas out of my ass. I'm very good at coming up with lost of ideas, but not very good at knowing what ideas are good lol

I do think you should have to review it before getting another free or points toy just like with assignments, that would keep a lot of people from abusing the "free" items

I love your idea about the once a month cap on using 100% of your points! I think it's fine to brainstorm and it's certainly harder than sitting around poking holes in other's ideas, so good for you!

I think the free assignments should stop, too. at least until the re-structuring happens. If it continues, then your idea is great.

^ This, combined with your time restrictions idea (once/month), and a requirement that the review achieve a certain quality rating (useful/extremely useful?) in order to continue to qualify for the monthly points buyout, might help get abuse under control.

It makes me giggle somewhat to see that you say the system was abused. The system was put in place by you. You even provided a lovely little list of all the tasks that people could do for points, which would naturally encourage people to do those actions. I'm sure it was done with the hopes that people would contribute meaningful content that would help bring in more customers, but how can anyone be shocked that people did just what they could to get points as quickly as possible?

Okay, so now you see the system is broken. Cool. Fix it. But don't screw the contributors that have worked hard to earn their points. There were many things about EF that I loved, but being screwed out of points that I put in a lot of effort earning puts a bad taste in my mouth. For me to spend all of the points that I have rightfully earned, I would have to spend somewhere around $700 in cash. That's never going to happen.

I am here now because I want to help my students who choose to remain (which isn't many of them), and because I still have friends on here that will not leave yet. I'm not sure how long I'll stay; I'm almost positive at this point that I'll never submit another review other than the 5 or 6 buy-outs that I have currently. Will that change if things get better here? Maybe, but I don't see anyway that EF can fix itself now.

I just feel like your company really screwed me. Sure, the system needed to be fixed, but you did it all wrong.

In regards to returns -- lingerie returns should still be allowed, in my opinion.

If you are GENUINE about going back and considering allowing us use of our

Read all four of the articles I posted. I edited all my content out of my reviews when you pulled your point stunt, but I would happily revert those reviews to their original state if you would like to read them and examine the work that I did.

I spent literal hours every day writing content for this website because I was passionate about contributing here, and that is exactly why I am so angry and, yeah, rude, because it feels like a slap in the face. I think the cases of point farming versus actual effort are very OBVIOUS.

Again, FRED, IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT LOOKING OVER PEOPLE'S INDIVIDUAL CASES, I would gleefully go back and revert all the 20+ reviews I did in the past two weeks (many of which were approved by my mentor before they went live). I will PM you in hopes that we can pursue this further. I am holding you to that statement you just made, mister.

I am sure the community appreciates your bluntness, but this is for ideas to FIX Eden and not heap ashes on a inflamed situation. Lets not start taking things hostage, 'holding reviews' or 'reverting reviews', the little I know of web admin...its on a hard drive somewhere with a date and a back up copy--i.e. moot point.

Let us keep this thread a positive one. There are plenty of other threads to go 'rant' at. Let us put forward great ideas so we can get Eden and the community back on its feet.

I am seeing some great ideas that members are suggestion to cut costs and keep things alive.

I agree with this and I mentioned awarding points for reviews after they were published at the start of this thread.

These are great ideas and ones that I think should really be took into consideration.

One item per month would be awesome.

Yeah, lingerie returns make as much sense as toy returns.

I actually think that lingerie returns do make sense. Lingerie is less likely to fit than a toy. I purchase A LOT of lingerie -- some from here, but a lot of it from other stores, and all of the stores I shop at allow lingerie returns -- provided that the item still has a tag and has not been worn.

I agree. I wouldn't purchase clothing, lingerie included, from a place that didn't offer returns if the product didn't fit.

This is the only thread in which Fred is discussing these things with people, and my post was in direct response to what he posted, which was that he might consider a case-by-case review of what contributors have been putting into the website. I don't think it is that outlandish for me to reply saying that if he means what he just said, I have no problem leaving my content up here (as that is related to the suggestions I posted on the first page - to honor the previous compensation system for points already earned, or allow people to take their content down). Calling it a hostage situation is unnecessarily dramatic.

My suggestions do pertain to the "inflamed situation" which was the catalyst for this thread in the first place, so I will be discussing that in my posts in this thread, sorry.

Onto my suggestions (some of which I already posted back on the first page, but am rehashing and reworking and adding to in this post)

Steps EF can take in order to regain the trust of its members:

1) Decide how much of a community emphasis we REALLY want to have at EF. If community involvement is a big priority, then consider writing up a code of conduct for whichever employees are interacting with said community, because when they start snapping at customers, it reflects badly on the business, regardless of what the customer said in order to get snapped at in the first place. If that is not possible, consider just having silent moderators on the forums and let people continue talking with each other as normal.

2) No more blaming customers for using the system that the staff here put in place. Again, it is poor customer service and creates animosity between customers and business owners, as we have already seen. That, in turn, effects the business as a whole. Using a system exactly the way it was set up is not abuse. It was just an unfavorable outcome that is being labeled abuse. Again... consider hiring some more experienced customer service workers as mouthpieces.

4) The system was good in theory but was poorly maintained. I think a better way to keep a points system would be not to award points for actions automatically, and make sure they are reviewed by a staff member (not a fellow EF contributor, or that could cause more problems than it solves) as being the kinds of well-written, helpful content that you want submitted to the site. Do away with the points for the daily forum actions, and perhaps consider getting rid of the guide that lists each individual thing you can do for points, so people don't log in and then proceed to go down that whole list and do every single action on it.

5) Don't do the "you can only use a certain percentage of points on each order" thing - just drastically cut the amount of points given in the first place, so that free toys are not so easily "farmed". If that is not a good alternative, then I agree that a limit of one "free" toy per month with generated points is a good way to curb point-spending-sprees. I also like the one-random-day-per-mon th full-points-value idea, but again, point values would have to decrease for all actions on this site in order for that not to eat into profit substantially.

6) Give a box option for a few extra bucks at checkout, or as a replacement for the "free gift" option. This has already been suggested but I think it is a very good one and will repeat it.

7) If EF is really in dire financial straits, maybe eliminate the point system completely, or at least temporarily suspend it. Coming out and saying "This system was not sustainable in its current model and we will be suspending it while we figure out a better plan" would be a better alternative to the 15% cut-down, in my opinion.

8) Broken record here, but honor the old point system for people who put obvious hard work into their content (easily checked by just giving it a once-over), or allow them the option of removing their material from this website, since the terms they agreed to when they submitted have since changed and again, said change should not be retroactive.

9) Up earlier in this post I said to think about how important the community part of EF is - actually, now that I think about it, maintaining a second forum with silent moderators seems like the best idea to me. One or two customer service reps as mouthpieces to make announcements and be the liaison between you and your customers, but moderators contactable by PM who do not get involved in mudslinging when it does happen.

10) I'm gonna second (third? fourth?) lingerie returns. I can't see how that would be much different from accepting used toy returns.

I concur with my former mentor and friend. Although I can't commit to sticking around.

@Woman China: I'm happy your new home is stunning.

It's a good thing you said this. That got me thinking. This is the problem with the whole "let's brainstorm solutions" thing. We're customers. How many of us have formal training in business related things?

We suggest stuff based on what we know - which is limited to what bits and pieces we can gather from what the staff says, and is sometimes conflicting information. There is a line to be drawn between taking community input into consideration and expecting to do the community to figure out all your problems for you, write reviews for you, write articles for you, figure out a successful business model for you, etc etc etc (for little or no compensation) and then complain and blame said customers when it doesn't work. That's already happened several times. I don't think anybody here wants to see that happen again.

We aren't going to be given the really important information that we would need in order to make effective and informed suggestions; all we can really do is make a list of requests. What would probably be the best route at this point is for Fred to hire some sort of consultant who knows what they're talking about, discuss numbers with them, come up with a sustainable business model, and then run some of the "tweakable" points by the community and get our input on those specific things. Fred already knows what all of us want, by now, so there's not much else that can be said.

Thank-you for validating that we are coming here with clarity and a willingness to move forward. I know that not every "demand" is going to be met, but I appreciate very much your willingness to a) listen and b) join in. I think that is something that many of us want from you moving forward. That you be more engaged in the community.

This might not be a popular idea but how about not only a once a month cap but points could also expire after X amount a time. That would make it harder to bank them up and would also drive people to actually order more perhaps as they tried to use them before that date. Sorta like some of the rewards programs that grocery and department stores use. Or even a cap so that people couldn't save for months and months and end up doing a $600 order with all points.

BTW also love the idea of points for a single toy only.

Please remember that the goal of this thread is a positive one. All of the bolded words and your tone in several places if off putting to me. Fred came here. He never comments in threads, but he is here and is willing to talk. I need you to follow the guidelines that i set out at the start of this thread if you are going to participate.