There are many things EF can change to save on expenses, but they're still offering cheap free gift that most people just get because they're free and then say that they wouldn't buy them if they weren't free. There is still a 25% sitewide sale going on, and EF has alienated most of its contributors and past staff members. I wish I had known what EF was like years ago, but I seem to have found this place at a bad time.

I've been thinking a lot about this. What could EF do to get me to stay?

1. Gift cards for SexIs articles. Those take effort, and they attract attention to the site.

2. Gift cards for editing. I edit for both SexIs and reviews, and I feel like that deserves something. If Eden didn't have the contributors editing for them, they'd have to pay someone else to do the job. I think it was JR that said that he used to spend several hours a day doing this.

3. The staff members (or... well, member, really, since everyone else is gone) has to start acting more professional. Fred, remember, she represents your company. If she is unable to conduct herself in a respectable, professional manner, what does that say about the company?

4. Reviewers deserve to be properly compensated. Especially those of us that consistently write high quality reviews. Reviews attract a lot of attention to the site, and you're basically slapping your reviewers in the face by telling them that they cannot really use the points they earned by adding useful content to your site. My feelings now are... why should I continue to write reviews for this site when my reviews are obviously not appreciated? Add to which, several of my reviews have been written on products that I purchased myself. Yes, a few were free assignments, but most of them were not.

5. Points earned before this announcement should be honored. This change should not be retroactive.

6. The percentage of points that can be used on an order needs to be raised. Anything less than 50% feels like a slap in the face at this point.

Yes! This is what a few other people have been trying to suggest for a while. I feel the same. I love this place & it's something I want to continue spending my time on very much. I think your suggestion was very well put & I think it would absolutely make all the difference in the world.

Some of us, including myself are happy to work hard & be here even if we aren't earning a lot of points. I was totally fine only earning the forum points every day. In fact, I hardly ever do all the actions to earn the maximum amount daily. Ever. I don't have a problem with lowering our earnings one bit & think it's not a bad idea. I do not like the change about us only getting to use our points for 15% off an order. That's very tiny incentive for our work and time. So I do think your idea is pretty spot-on to "fix" everything that's been screwed up here. It would require everybody to really, really work for those points and that sounds like what should've happened in the first place. Instead though, there were more and more and more people being able to point farm away and it seemed like the system was working in their favor.

Anyways, though. I think the whole new change came as a major shock to all of us. I've been upset about it and it's been on my mind all day. It's hard not to feel totally un-appreciated and like there's a possibility that we have all wasted years of our time. I don't truly think this, but I will admit that I too felt these things at first. It felt like a ginormous slap in the face.

I'm with you. I'd be willing to stick around for changes such as what you mentioned. Today, EF has been on my mind non-stop. I spent over 2 hours talking and discussing my feelings and stuff with my partner this evening. I am actually down and sad thinking this place might go down. I agree with what you said. I too feel the same way. I too would like a little more transparency. I feel like a lot of us give ourselves to this place in many ways & I do have some expectations from it. Such as honesty. Most of us are looking and holding out hope that we will be given a reason (if even just a tiny one!) to feel we should stay, to feel we are worth a little more & to feel that we really are appreciated, again, even if it's just a little.

As it is, most of us literally cannot afford to spend much time here. I don't ask for much, but I think the point system should be something like how you suggested. We should be able to use our EARNED gift card $, but we should be limited to how much we can make. That is fairness. The way it is at the moment is far, far from fair. If we did what you suggested, the people who were causing problems in the first place by crazy point-farming wouldn't be near as likely to go through it all to screw the system. I mean, say we were required to write so much in a review and only get our old pay, it'd make it real hard for them to go through and farm the heck out of the place because 1. they'd have to write so much & two, it won't be worth it to spend so much time for so little if you don't really care and 3. you couldn't just plagiarize because that will be caught.

So there's one thing. Just lowering the maximum amount of earning would make huge changes.

I wish I had more suggestions to add about more things we could do to change the way things go. I don't know the exact problem, but the rumor is, it's "financial." I don't know how severe it is, so it's hard to make suggestions. We don't know what will be enough. We don't know how bad it is or anything.

I too am hoping EF will listen to your suggestion closely and consider it instead of saying "oh, we're in financial trouble. We love the people who've made this happen, but we're snatching everything from you guys." That sounds like it would only make it worse to me, but I don't know much anyways. It just feels that was a drastic, mean-ish approach.

As I said, I'm absolutely holding onto any hope that we will be given reason to stay. I don't know how to better put that sentence, but I hope it really says what I'm trying to say. Not saying I hope they give us something just to keep us. No, we WANT to be here, but as I said, a lot of us can't if we're only getting nothing at all in return. We can't justify spending hours here. Just like if I were spending all the time I spend here on Facebook. That would be crazy because while I may be making friends, I'm not spending my time wisely. I could be working overtime or something.

I do hope we mean enough to this place for them to try and comprimise instead of rip everything away from us & treat us like just a one-time customer who's given nothing to the company. A lot of us have truly done things for this company.

Indiechick, I am glad you made this post. I think everyone who loves this place as much as we do will agree. If we love it & we do, we will be willing to do what we can too. I hope we can re-create a positive place too. There's been enough bad all over about EF in general, so I think we desperately need to work together in a positive, friendly light. Yes, we need options available. As I said, just taking everything and saying "oh, well we're glad you guys gave so much to us," isn't much option for us. And I think/hope there is room for other options.

We could even maybe think about changing the points given for reviews based on how useful they are... Well, then nevermind. There's people who would just down-vote as they do now. Just a thought, but maybe not a good one.

As someone else suggested though, not rewarding points instantly when a review is submitted is a good idea too. I wouldn't mind having to wait to receive my points.

oh this thread is a breath of fresh air! I have no smart ideas to add to the mix I just want to say thank you to all that are. That other thread had me on the verge of tears. I only made it to page 5 and I can not go back.
I just made a gift card too and took off 13 points for anything that I may have done yesterday or today.
I do not need to be compensated to stay on this site. I do think at this point an apology would be nice to hear from both sides but as I said with the little I have done on this site I do not require it.
I understand why Fred(and whomever was involved) did what they did. I also understand why so many got upset and left. I'm ready for whatever lies ahead.

The thing that initially attracted me to EF was the sites overall shop-ability. I didn't even learn about the rewards points until I'd been browsing for about 3 months or so.

I love the layout, the fact that you search, and narrow the search down using parameters. And the ability to make wishlists is great!

And honestly, I think the only things that should get points are as follows:

1) Reviews (but not till after they've been edited, approved, and published)
2) Sexis Articles (but not till after they've been edited, approved, and published)
3) Proof reading reviews and articles
4) Mentors
5) And the 5% points back on orders paid with cash.

Everything else can, and should, go. This way community involvement will be from people who actually want to be involved. And it would remove the ability to point farm since things need to be approved first.

I'd love to be able to used my saved up points, but right now I just want EF to survive.

I have looked into a lot of the bad, but there is still time to change and improve. All isn't lost yet.

ALSO activity should count more than popularity. I am not popular at the moment, but I do a damn good job and that needs to count for more than what people think of me

I honestly think maybe Eden should just strip down to the bare sex toy store. Clearly the community aspect of Eden can not be handled correctly, is costing more money than it's bringing in, etc, so maybe it's got to go?

I mean you could try keeping it around, but I don't know who is going to want to continue writing great quality reviews for the toys Eden sells- when there's little to no incentive in return. I don't sit around waiting to write elaborate reviews, complete with photos, on things I have purchased, just for fun. Or in this case, just for 15% off.

Maybe go back to having only employees review things. I don't know. I know I don't trust employee reviews, so that may be a waste of time as well.

It seems like, according to past forum posts, a lot of things have been tried to save the community aspect of the company. All were too little, too late- just not enough. I haven't been here for very long, but even in the short time that I've been here, I've witnessed what can best be described as a failing company trying desperately not to drown. And in the process, alienating their contributors and customers and blaming them for the failings of this business. I've worked for failing companies before. It's quite obvious what's going on here.

Just in the time I've been here (which is a short 4 weeks), I've seen the amount of points you can earn for tasks change three times. Confusing mandatory actions for trial period members have been changed twice. A double points week. A whole staff was let go. And now, after all that, the amount of points you earned for contributing to this site is limited to only being spent on 15% of an order. The same percentage I could always get off my order with a partner code.

When I consider all of these things, it becomes pretty clear to me that Eden just can not support this kind of community. I don't think there are any changes that can be made to save this side of the company.

I apologize if I come off as negative, I'm really not trying to. This is just how I feel from what I've observed so far.

I love the community aspect of the site. I would love for it to stick around. I would also love to be able to use the points I earned without having to spend $400 in order to do so. But what can you do?

As someone who would have to spend over $600 to use my points now I just dont have that kind of money. Eden if you really are going under, clearance off EVERYTHING. Let me get in and get out. I will pay you cash if you bring the prices down to liquidate the assets but you gotta be honest

I think "fixing" EF is threefold.

1. brainstorming by the community and EF management, separately, on what they think would "fix" EF by making it a worthwhile site for both parties. and then submit their lists of those ideas to a third party to mediate. create a list of agreed on actions to implement immediately and bring compromise to conflicting "fixes" as needed.

2. brainstorming what the specifics are that brought EF to the point of needing to be "fixed" - again, done separately by the community & EF management. then, brainstorm how to stop or change any existing failures to the mutual benefit of the community & EF management. and again, submit the lists to a third party to compile a useable list of "what not to do"

3. both the community and EF management separately brainstorm on effective safeguards and how to implement them for every agreed on action to implement and implement them A.S.A.P. again, using both lists, a third party will need to very timely mediate these lists and bring compromise where needed.

all of the above tasks will have to be done w/i a short & specific time frame since they are sequential tasks. If too much time is spent working through each task by either party, it will delay any "fixes" that will be implemented. any lengthy delay will contribute to the community discord it continuing to escalate. the sooner the "fixes" are put into place, the sooner EF will regain the support and promotion of EF by the community as well as making EF worthwhile to the community.

Does EF still want a thriving community? do community members who've left & those still here want worthwhile reasons to stay w/ EF & continue to support EF? the "fixes" are a two way street here. and they have to provide valuable reasons for both parties to continue working with each other.

I am still around and plan to be, I would like to see what others have said worked out into something. I will still be active as much as I can, but that still limits me from making purchases. I too have put in cash with my points and never have cheated the system or cancelled any orders to get any better deals then what was offered. It must have been nice for some who have. I always played by the rules and did what was expected of me. That's all I have to say for now but will be following this thread to see what is going to happen. I too have also generated my points since this had happened.

Very grateful to hear from Fred.

I was a member of another point system that saw major point abuse and eventually closed the company. Lots of uproar and people left when they stopped giving points. Those with points were allowed to use them but could generate no more after that.

my suggestion as a business model is to abandon the point system all together, it is broken, doesn't work and frankly easily abused.

Instead, lets use a system that rewards what we want to encourage: active community and great reviews.

First, to get money accumulated to a new item you have to write a review. The first 5 reviews are provided to Eden by the reviewer for free. They must have a rating of useful and above to qualify to start earning free money towards the next purchase.

second, forum activity is expected, not required, and no longer providing points. It will help boost your reputation as a reviewer and contributor and that should be enough to keep you active. (if it falls to low...you atop accumulating cash for the next purchase).

I honestly don't spend a ton of time on sexis. I am not sure if it makes the cut...as a business owner I would want to see traffic information before making that decision...but I have been on this site for over 6 months and I have only read one article.

that's my thoughts...do a ratio for old contributors instead of 100=$1 do 200...or something. Then once it clears never do the point system again and make it so the website continues to have GOOD reviews since that is what attracts alot of customers.

thank you Fred for coming back to us expressing your desire to work with the community. I believe it's necessary as you stated, to "redesign the system so it supports advocacy, education, comradery, and free environment" - how this happens will be through collaboration.

so many posted ideas to fix the broken system are flying around w/o anything to contain them allowing a time to consider them in a coherent manner. somehow, a list of all ideas needs to be compiled so each can be given some thought. otherwise, chaos still reins.

I made a post just above yours w/ some thoughts & ideas that are workable. please read my post and take them into consideration.