Well, where you're misunderstanding is that she's not talking about a person's faith, she's talking about their religion. I'm going to focus on Christianity because you are.

Many, if not most, of the churches that I've been to preach vaguely on sex, if they don't avoid the subject altogether. And when the topic is brought up, they teach you to be cautious and fear sex. It's such a grave sin outside of marriage. You might as well murder someone, that would be better than to have sex with someone. And for God's sake, PLEASE don't have sex with someone of the same sex because then you're going straight to Hell.

Others I've been to will even go so far as to blame women for a man's sexual misconduct. Telling her that what she is wearing will cause a man to stumble. That her wearing a low-cut top or a short skirt is her way of disrespecting every man on the face of the planet because now they're fantasizing about her. And if he were to rape her? Oh, well, "What were you wearing? Were you drinking? Are you sure you didn't say no? Premarital sex is a sin, maybe you're just covering up your guilty conscience." My response to this is summed up nicely in the Vagina Monologues.

That is what religion tends to say, not what the Bible says. The Bible is clear on the subject that sex is good and that it can be as wild and passionate as you want it to be. But there are too many people who listen far more closely to what the preacher says than to what the Bible says. There are people I know that are very sound Christians and who engage in BDSM practices. They are far from vanilla. But there are others that I know who believe that sex is about procreation, and aside from that, shouldn't be engaged in much (except to keep their spouses from cheating)... to the point where they won't even undress in front of their spouses as to not excite them too much.

Religion is a tricky, prickly, and complicated hot-button issue. But I think it's important to clarify that faith and religion are two separate subjects. less

Thank you BBWTT.

I would like to point out also, that I linked a page with information regarding the views that MANY religions have as far as sexuality is concerned. If you had actually taken the time to read it, you would have noticed that some of these religions consider things that even the most vanilla of us consider normal and acceptable, to be a sin.

For instance

Did you know that in Orthodox Judaism they believe in:

1. A prohibition on touching a person of the opposite sex, especially in a lingering arousing manner

2. A prohibition on hotza'at zera levatala -- "secreting semen in vain" by men. There is no equivalent prohibition for women since there is no secretion. However, masturbation by women is considered to be a lewd act and is thus included in the general commandment "And you shall be holy".

3. A prohibition on wearing the clothing of a member of the opposite sex

Or that in most Lutheran, Reformed and United churches of the EKD in Germany and in the Netherlands and Switzerland view homosexuality as a violation of the 7th commandment. In these Lutheran, United and Reformed churches (Luther/Calvin) gay ministers are not permitted in ministry and gay couples are not allowed in their churches.

Or that in Islamic religion Qur'anic verses made it legal for Muslim men to marry women from other Abrahamic religions (i.e. Jews and Christians), provided that the women are faithful (adherent) to their own religious beliefs. Contemporary scholars have upheld this ruling.
A Muslim woman, on the other hand, is only allowed to marry a Muslim man, one of the reasons being, to marry a non-Muslim man would mean that the children would grow up as non-Muslims. A marriage contract between a Muslim woman and a non-Muslim man is traditionally considered illegal and void, and hence legally an adulterous affair.

Or that in Hinduism, views of sexual morality differ widely depending on the region and sect. Hindu scriptures themselves are often vague about sexuality. There are temples depicting sexual activity openly (examples include temple complexes at Ajanta and Ellora, and at Khajuraho, which has a group of medieval Hindu and Jain temples, with their erotic sculpture), and sexual imagery is not sacrilege, but sexual self-restraint (as well as in other aspects of life) are considered essential to a Hindu's well being and dharmic/karmic duties.

In Christianity scriptures in the New Testament dealing with sexuality are extensive. Subjects include: the Apostolic Decree (Acts 15), sexual immorality, divine love (1 Corinthians 13), mutual self-giving (1 Corinthians 7), bodily membership between Christ and between husband and wife (1 Corinthians 6:15-20) and honor versus dishonor of adultery.(Hebrews 13:4) Even with the large number of Bible passages that address issues of sexuality, interpretation of these verses can vary. The issue of premarital sex is good example of how the same verse can be viewed in different ways. In modern English, fornication typically refers to voluntary sexual intercourse between persons not married to each other. Given that modern definition, a verse that condemns fornication (such as 1 Corinthians 6:9 which is often cited by various denominations as biblical opposition to pre-marital sex) would appear to be clear. However, in the New Testament, fornication is the word used to translate the Koine Greek word porneia into English. In Ancient Greek, the word porneia meant "illicit sex" or "illegal sex". Early Christians interpreted this word to encompass activities such as: adultery, incest, and bestiality. Modern evangelical Christians tend to prefer the definition of premarital sex, or will even choose to broaden the term to also include activities such as homosexuality, prostitution, masturbation and pornography, while progressive Christians tend to limit the interpretation of the word to illegal sexual activities such as incest, bestiality, and pedophilia. In the context of history, the former understanding is to be preferred.

Now I would like to point out that yes, I understand that much of this is about extramarital sex, sex prior to marriage, or homosexuality, and some of it refers to acts that likely few or none of us are ok with (eg, incest, bestiality, and pedophilia). However, some of it pertains to things as simple as not being able to wear your partners shirt when you wake up at 4 am and need to run to the bathroom or to the kitchen for a snack... whatever you may be doing, even masturbation is prohibited in some religions.

I am a bisexual, monogamous, woman who is separated from her husband. If I were to have sex, most religions would consider that adultery and a sin. If that sex were with a woman, no matter how vanilla (and I do not consider vanilla to be boring, just simplified, and not to my particular tastes) that would DEFINITELY be considered a sin. Many religions consider BDSM practices to be sinful. In many of these situations people are having not only premarital, but also extramarital sex, which is part of the turn on for their partners. That would be considered sinful as well, even though it is consented to by all parties, and benefits their sex life enormously.

Even in religions that preach sexual tolerance (aside from homosexuality, premarital sex and adultery) many people would be looked down upon not only by the church but by their peers within the church if they are caught behaving in any manner which is outside of the perceived norm. EVEN if that perception is not reality.

This is why I feel the way that I do. I know that I could not feel sexually liberated and still live within the expectations and practices of MOST religions. less

Thank you BBWTT.

I would like to point out also, that I linked a page with information regarding the views that MANY religions have as far as sexuality is concerned. If you had actually taken the time to read it, you would have noticed that some of these religions consider things that even the most vanilla of us consider normal and acceptable, to be a sin.

For instance

Did you know that in Orthodox Judaism they believe in:

1. A prohibition on touching a person of the opposite sex, especially in a lingering arousing manner

2. A prohibition on hotza'at zera levatala -- "secreting semen in vain" by men. There is no equivalent prohibition for women since there is no secretion. However, masturbation by women is considered to be a lewd act and is thus included in the general commandment "And you shall be holy".

3. A prohibition on wearing the clothing of a member of the opposite sex

Or that in most Lutheran, Reformed and United churches of the EKD in Germany and in the Netherlands and Switzerland view homosexuality as a violation of the 7th commandment. In these Lutheran, United and Reformed churches (Luther/Calvin) gay ministers are not permitted in ministry and gay couples are not allowed in their churches.

Or that in Islamic religion Qur'anic verses made it legal for Muslim men to marry women from other Abrahamic religions (i.e. Jews and Christians), provided that the women are faithful (adherent) to their own religious beliefs. Contemporary scholars have upheld this ruling.
A Muslim woman, on the other hand, is only allowed to marry a Muslim man, one of the reasons being, to marry a non-Muslim man would mean that the children would grow up as non-Muslims. A marriage contract between a Muslim woman and a non-Muslim man is traditionally considered illegal and void, and hence legally an adulterous affair.

Or that in Hinduism, views of sexual morality differ widely depending on the region and sect. Hindu scriptures themselves are often vague about sexuality. There are temples depicting sexual activity openly (examples include temple complexes at Ajanta and Ellora, and at Khajuraho, which has a group of medieval Hindu and Jain temples, with their erotic sculpture), and sexual imagery is not sacrilege, but sexual self-restraint (as well as in other aspects of life) are considered essential to a Hindu's well being and dharmic/karmic duties.

In Christianity scriptures in the New Testament dealing with sexuality are extensive. Subjects include: the Apostolic Decree (Acts 15), sexual immorality, divine love (1 Corinthians 13), mutual self-giving (1 Corinthians 7), bodily membership between Christ and between husband and wife (1 Corinthians 6:15-20) and honor versus dishonor of adultery.(Hebrews 13:4) Even with the large number of Bible passages that address issues of sexuality, interpretation of these verses can vary. The issue of premarital sex is good example of how the same verse can be viewed in different ways. In modern English, fornication typically refers to voluntary sexual intercourse between persons not married to each other. Given that modern definition, a verse that condemns fornication (such as 1 Corinthians 6:9 which is often cited by various denominations as biblical opposition to pre-marital sex) would appear to be clear. However, in the New Testament, fornication is the word used to translate the Koine Greek word porneia into English. In Ancient Greek, the word porneia meant "illicit sex" or "illegal sex". Early Christians interpreted this word to encompass activities such as: adultery, incest, and bestiality. Modern evangelical Christians tend to prefer the definition of premarital sex, or will even choose to broaden the term to also include activities such as homosexuality, prostitution, masturbation and pornography, while progressive Christians tend to limit the interpretation of the word to illegal sexual activities such as incest, bestiality, and pedophilia. In the context of history, the former understanding is to be preferred.

Now I would like to point out that yes, I understand that much of this is about extramarital sex, sex prior to marriage, or homosexuality, and some of it refers to acts that likely few or none of us are ok with (eg, incest, bestiality, and pedophilia). However, some of it pertains to things as simple as not being able to wear your partners shirt when you wake up at 4 am and need to run to the bathroom or to the kitchen for a snack... whatever you may be doing, even masturbation is prohibited in some religions.

I am a bisexual, monogamous, woman who is separated from her husband. If I were to have sex, most religions would consider that adultery and a sin. If that sex were with a woman, no matter how vanilla (and I do not consider vanilla to be boring, just simplified, and not to my particular tastes) that would DEFINITELY be considered a sin. Many religions consider BDSM practices to be sinful. In many of these situations people are having not only premarital, but also extramarital sex, which is part of the turn on for their partners. That would be considered sinful as well, even though it is consented to by all parties, and benefits their sex life enormously.

Even in religions that preach sexual tolerance (aside from homosexuality, premarital sex and adultery) many people would be looked down upon not only by the church but by their peers within the church if they are caught behaving in any manner which is outside of the perceived norm. EVEN if that perception is not reality.

This is why I feel the way that I do. I know that I could not feel sexually liberated and still live within the expectations and practices of MOST religions. less

Well, where you're misunderstanding is that she's not talking about a person's faith, she's talking about their religion. I'm going to focus on Christianity because you are.

Many, if not most, of the churches that I've been to preach vaguely on sex, if they don't avoid the subject altogether. And when the topic is brought up, they teach you to be cautious and fear sex. It's such a grave sin outside of marriage. You might as well murder someone, that would be better than to have sex with someone. And for God's sake, PLEASE don't have sex with someone of the same sex because then you're going straight to Hell.

Others I've been to will even go so far as to blame women for a man's sexual misconduct. Telling her that what she is wearing will cause a man to stumble. That her wearing a low-cut top or a short skirt is her way of disrespecting every man on the face of the planet because now they're fantasizing about her. And if he were to rape her? Oh, well, "What were you wearing? Were you drinking? Are you sure you didn't say no? Premarital sex is a sin, maybe you're just covering up your guilty conscience." My response to this is summed up nicely in the Vagina Monologues.

That is what religion tends to say, not what the Bible says. The Bible is clear on the subject that sex is good and that it can be as wild and passionate as you want it to be. But there are too many people who listen far more closely to what the preacher says than to what the Bible says. There are people I know that are very sound Christians and who engage in BDSM practices. They are far from vanilla. But there are others that I know who believe that sex is about procreation, and aside from that, shouldn't be engaged in much (except to keep their spouses from cheating)... to the point where they won't even undress in front of their spouses as to not excite them too much.

Religion is a tricky, prickly, and complicated hot-button issue. But I think it's important to clarify that faith and religion are two separate subjects. less

WARNING: wall o text

This is a very interesting discussion, Girl. I agree that you have been quite respectful and understanding regarding people's religion, faith and practices. Nowhere did I see you say that "vanilla" was a "bad" or "boring" thing, you simply used to work to denote a type of sex that many engage in and are happy with. No harm, no foul.

I consider myself Generic Christian. I think people (Christians in particular) pay too much attention to Leviticus and Deuteronomy (which were written for the ancient Hebrews following Moses through the desert. and not meant for modern people) and not enough to the entire belief system. Contrast The Songs of Solomon with Leviticus or Deuteronomy and you have some glaring inconsistencies. Yet, too many people use Leviticus and Deuteronomy as a way to point fingers and condemn others, while ignoring the parts of these books that obviously have NO place in our society. And these people nearly always ignore parts of the Bible which condemn things that make them comfy like their money and their power. Is it a "sin" to wear cloth made from two different fabrics? According to Leviticus (or maybe it's Deuteronomy) it IS. This shows us that even the Ancients had political and economic issues interfering in their Faith.

For those who do consider themselves Christian, please note that Jesus Christ said little about sexual activities. He told a woman (NOT Mary Magdalen as is often mistaken for the woman) to "go and sin no more" because the man she was having sex with was married to someone else and sneaking behind his wife's back having sex with the woman. NOT because they were simply having sex, or even because the woman may or may not have been a prostitute.

It is virtually impossible to "live according to the Bible 100%" as I have heard some people say they do. In addition to myriad sexual and social rules, one would also be committing "an abomination" if one's toilet is within 100 paces of where one eats or sleeps, if one wears cloth of two different fabrics, if a woman cuts or shows her hair, if a man trim his beard or shaves, if one is RICH etc. Yet, these prohibitions are ignored, even by those who claim they "follow the Bible 100%.) I have been told "those no longer count." Yet the prohibitions of a "man lying with a man" are still enforced. WHY? I have asked people WHERE does it say which prohibitions are no longer no longer apply, yet no self proclaimed Christian has been able to answer my question.

Maybe some common sense (even though we are not supposed to "trust in your own understanding") should be applied to religion, too. Is it harming anyone? If not, then how is is wrong? If God created everything, including time, space, light and darkness and all life WHY would such a powerful being be "offended" by the way two people pleasure each other or if one persons pleasure him or herself? Makes no sense to me. So, I don't belong to a standard religion. I just like what the Jewish Carpenter had to say about Love and Peace and treating each other well and his repeated condemnations of the Evil Rich. So, He's my dude.

I see nothing in His words that condemn what My Man and I do in our bedroom, no condemnations of vibrating objects, nor about self pleasure, none about a little bondage or rough play, or leather or playful spankings, nor oral nor anal love.

Mileage and all that. less

I was making grilled cheese earlier and for some reason this question just popped into my head. I doubt there is any correlation between the two but it is still a good question.

There are a variety of rules within many if not all religious groups. Some of them can be seen here : link

Now I will include as many different groups to this poll as I can, I hope that some of you will offer your opinions because I am honestly really interested in the different views people may have. less

I was making grilled cheese earlier and for some reason this question just popped into my head. I doubt there is any correlation between the two but it is still a good question.

There are a variety of rules within many if not all religious groups. Some of them can be seen here : link

Now I will include as many different groups to this poll as I can, I hope that some of you will offer your opinions because I am honestly really interested in the different views people may have. less

I was making grilled cheese earlier and for some reason this question just popped into my head. I doubt there is any correlation between the two but it is still a good question.

There are a variety of rules within many if not all religious groups. Some of them can be seen here : link

Now I will include as many different groups to this poll as I can, I hope that some of you will offer your opinions because I am honestly really interested in the different views people may have. less

I was making grilled cheese earlier and for some reason this question just popped into my head. I doubt there is any correlation between the two but it is still a good question.

There are a variety of rules within many if not all religious groups. Some of them can be seen here : link

Now I will include as many different groups to this poll as I can, I hope that some of you will offer your opinions because I am honestly really interested in the different views people may have. less

I have not yet been able to make a firm decision on this. In my opinion I suppose it would depend on the person, their sexuality and the religion they are a part of. I believe that religion is very biased when it comes to bot gender and sexual preference. I think it may be possible for a person who is straight, monogomous and vanilla in their sexual choices to feel sexually liberated and still be within the boundaries set by their religion. I don't see this being a very common occurance though. less