I first found EF back in 2010, I was looking for a P-spot toy and Eden was the first site that showed up when I did a Google search. Not only did I find an ass load of toys to choose from, I also found this wonderful forum. It was filled with welcoming contributors that are more than happy to help out and give advice. The whole atmosphere was welcoming and I was so happy to find a place where folks could ask anything they wanted and not be judged based on their orientation, background, color etc. etc.

All this and free toys too, hell ya! Never had I dreamed that a site like this existed or that I would find a site like this with people from all walks of life that made me comfortable talking about stuff that I could not talk to my friends or family about.

Fast forward two years, many changes and lots of new faces. We not only enjoy all of these wonderful activities and perks but Eden has been gracious enough to add points for doing these things. This was the icing on the cake for me and to this day I cannot believe that a company would be so giving to its customers. Where else I ask you, can you find all this in one place?

Now to the point of all this. Since the points were added there have been numerous post, threads, discussions and what not that seem like they are nothing more than point farming, that is folks just trying to rack up as many points as possible. I do agree that some of them are doing just that but I see so many that are justified questions. An example would be the “Do you like this” type thread. As most of you know, there is always a box on a product page that reads “Start a discussion”, when I first saw this I figured this was how I asked about a product on the forums. In fact I used this for just that many times. There are times when a product does not have reviews that tell me what I need to know.

Is that not what it is for?

Lately I have seen all too often that a contributor will automatically say “read the reviews”, is this a welcoming attitude? Is this what we want newcomers to see when they ask questions? Do you ever think, "Boy that sure was nice of so and so to say, I bet that person feels really good now." (sarcastically) Honestly, I probably would have left with my tail between my legs and never came back to the forums.

How many potentially great contributors have we lost from comments like this? Y’all do know that this is a company that is in business to make money, right? How many customers has EF lost due to our actions?

Do y’all think we as a community can be a bit harsh at times? I understand that most of these threads are indeed spam or point farming but how do we know for sure? Can we read the minds of folks over the internet, what about when the person really wanted to know?

Something else that gets me, does everyone think that EF can solve these problems over night? Things like this take time to fix, have some consideration for the powers that be. There are other issues that EF has to deal with too. I may say they are gods but I know that they can’t just snap their fingers to fix things, let’s get behind them and support the work they do.

Sorry for the rant but honestly, I am starting to feel that the welcoming community that I fell in love with two years ago is losing its appeal. I know that we only want the best for the community and yes, the point farming can be too much at times, but how is chasing folks off going to help the problem. Why not just ignore the threads and let them fall to the bottom of the list, remarking that they should “Read the reviews first” or “You should do a search first” only keeps the thread on the main page, eh?

There are over 21,000 members of this community; I would think we could come up with a better way of dealing with this problem. Sure we may not solve the problem completely but I bet all my stainless toys we can do better than “Read the reviews”!

What about virtually extending our hand to these folks, welcoming them to the community and kindly showing them the way of Eden? Why is it that folks knock these people down instead of setting good examples for the newbies?

Please feel free to comment, after all, that is what the forums are for. I welcome your opinion and encourage y’all to do so. I am sure we can make this a better place that everyone will enjoy being a part of.

PS, don’t worry, I am not going anywhere. It will take a whole lot more than this to get rid of me. less

I agree. As a new comer I can say.... although some in the community have been so very very kind to me. Honestly. I just love my friends here. But to be totally honest about the community. I am scared to death to even post anything. like answering this right now.

Who am I going to piss off, will they vote down my reviews now, why do they not like me..

all of this plays in my head. Inviting... NO.... honestly. I feel like a fish out of water , i feel like most don't like me. and I feel alone ..

I love my mentor, and my past two mentors. then lets see. you and maybe 10 others and that may be a streach, are even nice enough to say hi or help me when i need it.. Sad isn't it.

Of course my first few weeks of reading reviews i had no idea what the voting did to a persons rating. I never voted lower just to vote lower. I was looking for information that was not provided. so i voted usefull. but i have been told that my early votes is what has made me an outcast here. idk, maybe just her opion.

IDK.
HUGS lori less

Once again, I am not pointing fingers. This is something that has been going on since before the points started. Not just recent events, honestly this is something that has been building up in me for a long time.

For all I know it has not scared off folks, but what if it does? Do we want EF to lose those customers? These are the questions I ask myself every day as I only want EF to succeed and for the community to be as welcoming as it can be. I understand folks not wanting to go find a review and direct them to it, makes perfect sense. I just have to wonder what folks think when the use something offered and only get directed back to where they started. less

I agree with you!
When I first came on this site I posted something in the wrong place(not knowing how everything worked yet) and got dozens of rude comments accusing me of "farming" at that point I didn't even know what the points where for, I got flagged a couple of times and I was so embarrassed. thankfully everything got resolved, but I almost left just because of how I was treated. less

I didn't think you were pointing fingers, I was just saying that I didn't realize what I am some others were posting was being seen as rude, it was not my intention at least, I was trying to be helpful. It always helps to have a second set of eyes to give a fresh perspective. less

In complete honesty, this place IS confusing. I ended up not hanging out here for over a month (net access reasons) and came back to find everything totally rearranged and not where it was when I left. Took me most of a day to reorient myself, and I already knew what was supposed to be around the place!

So, granted, there's going to be some confusion from noobs for the first couple of weeks, especially if they do have a question and don't know where to look for the answer. Patience. I know even I get snarky about the profusion of repeat questions, but we've got to remind ourselves that the noobs are trying to catch up in their own way, not annoy us on purpose.

Lori, it seems you arrived here while I was gone, so my belated greeting - welcome and continue to have fun. ^_^ less

I always try and be welcoming and answer their questions, and if they are acting like point farmers I try and give them warning. Something like "Posting a smiley face on all of the products looks like point farming, and leaving real comments is more fun and helps you make friends! I just wanted to let you know because point farming can get you in big trouble and I don't want you to get banned or anything!"

I know that my first forum posts were preeety spammy (the usual "I am new!" or "What are your favorite materials?" silly things) and they never got responses. I think that that's a good way to 'teach' newcommers what's appropriate and what gets people talking. less

I honestly did it because I thought I was being helpful. When I said to the contributor writing the post, I simply said most of the time that they would get better results if they read the reviews and if the reviews didn't answer their questions then I thought the ones who had reviewed it would be happy to answer any other questions that they may have. Sorry if what Zombirella, I and others did was taken as scaring members off. I like it here and am glad that I am having a great experience here. Scaring people off is not what Zombirella or I were trying to do, trust me. less

Oh, and maybe putting a character minimum for threads would be a good idea so we could get rid of the whole "I like it." "Cute." "Nice." and "Is this good?" threads. If you're going to start a topic you're usually going to at least explain what you're saying a little more than that. less

Exactly, I say it nice. I do admit one time I wasn't but this person posted 2 reviews that were identical and then copied someone else's review and posted it to a totally different product and I was just annoyed already that someone was scamming the site.

I know everyone is new at some point. I never offered to have them come to me for help because I thought they might think I was being arrogant or something or implying they were not smart enough to navigate the site themselves.

I do know that sometimes even after reading the reviews you still want the opinion of others, I've made a post before after reading reviews because I just had trouble making a decision. less

I first found EF back in 2010, I was looking for a P-spot toy and Eden was the first site that showed up when I did a Google search. Not only did I find an ass load of toys to choose from, I also found this wonderful forum. It was filled with welcoming contributors that are more than happy to help out and give advice. The whole atmosphere was welcoming and I was so happy to find a place where folks could ask anything they wanted and not be judged based on their orientation, background, color etc. etc.

All this and free toys too, hell ya! Never had I dreamed that a site like this existed or that I would find a site like this with people from all walks of life that made me comfortable talking about stuff that I could not talk to my friends or family about.

Fast forward two years, many changes and lots of new faces. We not only enjoy all of these wonderful activities and perks but Eden has been gracious enough to add points for doing these things. This was the icing on the cake for me and to this day I cannot believe that a company would be so giving to its customers. Where else I ask you, can you find all this in one place?

Now to the point of all this. Since the points were added there have been numerous post, threads, discussions and what not that seem like they are nothing more than point farming, that is folks just trying to rack up as many points as possible. I do agree that some of them are doing just that but I see so many that are justified questions. An example would be the “Do you like this” type thread. As most of you know, there is always a box on a product page that reads “Start a discussion”, when I first saw this I figured this was how I asked about a product on the forums. In fact I used this for just that many times. There are times when a product does not have reviews that tell me what I need to know.

Is that not what it is for?

Lately I have seen all too often that a contributor will automatically say “read the reviews”, is this a welcoming attitude? Is this what we want newcomers to see when they ask questions? Do you ever think, "Boy that sure was nice of so and so to say, I bet that person feels really good now." (sarcastically) Honestly, I probably would have left with my tail between my legs and never came back to the forums.

How many potentially great contributors have we lost from comments like this? Y’all do know that this is a company that is in business to make money, right? How many customers has EF lost due to our actions?

Do y’all think we as a community can be a bit harsh at times? I understand that most of these threads are indeed spam or point farming but how do we know for sure? Can we read the minds of folks over the internet, what about when the person really wanted to know?

Something else that gets me, does everyone think that EF can solve these problems over night? Things like this take time to fix, have some consideration for the powers that be. There are other issues that EF has to deal with too. I may say they are gods but I know that they can’t just snap their fingers to fix things, let’s get behind them and support the work they do.

Sorry for the rant but honestly, I am starting to feel that the welcoming community that I fell in love with two years ago is losing its appeal. I know that we only want the best for the community and yes, the point farming can be too much at times, but how is chasing folks off going to help the problem. Why not just ignore the threads and let them fall to the bottom of the list, remarking that they should “Read the reviews first” or “You should do a search first” only keeps the thread on the main page, eh?

There are over 21,000 members of this community; I would think we could come up with a better way of dealing with this problem. Sure we may not solve the problem completely but I bet all my stainless toys we can do better than “Read the reviews”!

What about virtually extending our hand to these folks, welcoming them to the community and kindly showing them the way of Eden? Why is it that folks knock these people down instead of setting good examples for the newbies?

Please feel free to comment, after all, that is what the forums are for. I welcome your opinion and encourage y’all to do so. I am sure we can make this a better place that everyone will enjoy being a part of.

PS, don’t worry, I am not going anywhere. It will take a whole lot more than this to get rid of me. less

Yeah, I see your point. I'm always scared people will think I'm just trying to point farm when I post threads once in a while asking for people's toy opinions when I actually just want my opinion tipped in one direction or the other because I've already read the reviews and can't decide, haha. I've never ever had someone be rude or anything to me though. less

I first found EF back in 2010, I was looking for a P-spot toy and Eden was the first site that showed up when I did a Google search. Not only did I find an ass load of toys to choose from, I also found this wonderful forum. It was filled with welcoming contributors that are more than happy to help out and give advice. The whole atmosphere was welcoming and I was so happy to find a place where folks could ask anything they wanted and not be judged based on their orientation, background, color etc. etc.

All this and free toys too, hell ya! Never had I dreamed that a site like this existed or that I would find a site like this with people from all walks of life that made me comfortable talking about stuff that I could not talk to my friends or family about.

Fast forward two years, many changes and lots of new faces. We not only enjoy all of these wonderful activities and perks but Eden has been gracious enough to add points for doing these things. This was the icing on the cake for me and to this day I cannot believe that a company would be so giving to its customers. Where else I ask you, can you find all this in one place?

Now to the point of all this. Since the points were added there have been numerous post, threads, discussions and what not that seem like they are nothing more than point farming, that is folks just trying to rack up as many points as possible. I do agree that some of them are doing just that but I see so many that are justified questions. An example would be the “Do you like this” type thread. As most of you know, there is always a box on a product page that reads “Start a discussion”, when I first saw this I figured this was how I asked about a product on the forums. In fact I used this for just that many times. There are times when a product does not have reviews that tell me what I need to know.

Is that not what it is for?

Lately I have seen all too often that a contributor will automatically say “read the reviews”, is this a welcoming attitude? Is this what we want newcomers to see when they ask questions? Do you ever think, "Boy that sure was nice of so and so to say, I bet that person feels really good now." (sarcastically) Honestly, I probably would have left with my tail between my legs and never came back to the forums.

How many potentially great contributors have we lost from comments like this? Y’all do know that this is a company that is in business to make money, right? How many customers has EF lost due to our actions?

Do y’all think we as a community can be a bit harsh at times? I understand that most of these threads are indeed spam or point farming but how do we know for sure? Can we read the minds of folks over the internet, what about when the person really wanted to know?

Something else that gets me, does everyone think that EF can solve these problems over night? Things like this take time to fix, have some consideration for the powers that be. There are other issues that EF has to deal with too. I may say they are gods but I know that they can’t just snap their fingers to fix things, let’s get behind them and support the work they do.

Sorry for the rant but honestly, I am starting to feel that the welcoming community that I fell in love with two years ago is losing its appeal. I know that we only want the best for the community and yes, the point farming can be too much at times, but how is chasing folks off going to help the problem. Why not just ignore the threads and let them fall to the bottom of the list, remarking that they should “Read the reviews first” or “You should do a search first” only keeps the thread on the main page, eh?

There are over 21,000 members of this community; I would think we could come up with a better way of dealing with this problem. Sure we may not solve the problem completely but I bet all my stainless toys we can do better than “Read the reviews”!

What about virtually extending our hand to these folks, welcoming them to the community and kindly showing them the way of Eden? Why is it that folks knock these people down instead of setting good examples for the newbies?

Please feel free to comment, after all, that is what the forums are for. I welcome your opinion and encourage y’all to do so. I am sure we can make this a better place that everyone will enjoy being a part of.

PS, don’t worry, I am not going anywhere. It will take a whole lot more than this to get rid of me. less

I agree. As a new comer I can say.... although some in the community have been so very very kind to me. Honestly. I just love my friends here. But to be totally honest about the community. I am scared to death to even post anything. like answering this right now.

Who am I going to piss off, will they vote down my reviews now, why do they not like me..

all of this plays in my head. Inviting... NO.... honestly. I feel like a fish out of water , i feel like most don't like me. and I feel alone ..

I love my mentor, and my past two mentors. then lets see. you and maybe 10 others and that may be a streach, are even nice enough to say hi or help me when i need it.. Sad isn't it.

Of course my first few weeks of reading reviews i had no idea what the voting did to a persons rating. I never voted lower just to vote lower. I was looking for information that was not provided. so i voted usefull. but i have been told that my early votes is what has made me an outcast here. idk, maybe just her opion.

IDK.
HUGS lori less

Lori, I think you're doing great. Just keep being yourself and it will get better! Frankly, I think youre awesome! I think the more you say and the more people get to know you the more at home you will begin to feel. Its funny, I feel just the opposite. I feel comfortable here on the forum, but the thought of writing a review scares the crap out of me! If I can do anything to make you feel more welcome let me know! And please don't regret saying how you honestly feel! How else will people know? And hopefuly your thoughts help others too! less

Lori, I think you're doing great. Just keep being yourself and it will get better! Frankly, I think youre awesome! I think the more you say and the more people get to know you the more at home you will begin to feel. Its funny, I feel just the opposite. I feel comfortable here on the forum, but the thought of writing a review scares the crap out of me! If I can do anything to make you feel more welcome let me know! And please don't regret saying how you honestly feel! How else will people know? And hopefuly your thoughts help others too! less

First off, I am sorry you feel that way. That is just not right to me. We are an open welcoming community, to hear this just pisses me off even more. There should be no worries about asking a question or posting stuff to the forums.

Hugs back Lori.

Oh ya, if any one down votes you from this. First, send a message to the admins, then let me know; I break out the Eleven for ya. less

"Not only did I find an ass load of toys to choose from . . ."

That made me lol a little, but on a more serious note . . .

I have, on occasion, been one of the people to tell these posters that they can find more information by reading the reviews on the product, but I tried to come across in a way that wasn't threatening or harsh. There was one occasion where I said this to someone and they had a couple of questions that weren't in their main post that I answered for them. It was something about fur-lined cuffs versus leather cuffs and which one was better. I'm always helpful when I can be, but it does get really frustrating to see countless threads started simply asking "Is this good?" or "Has anyone used this?" then there are countless reviews on the item. Those are the only ones where I really tell people to look at the reviews. I just ignore all the others and have started to just care less and less. Hell, I barely even look at the most recently updated threads because it's all been clogged up with a bunch of junk and still continues to be even after the expectations of conduct got updated. People who are going to point farm don't care about reading that.

If the point farming behavior actually got handled there'd be less of all of this to worry about. Generally we're all really nice and supportive to people who aren't obviously abusing the system. less

You make some good points, Tim.

I think it's hard, when one is a "seasoned" member of a site like this to remember what we felt like when we first arrived. I don't know if I started many threads. I did start one about my frustration with the ease with which poor reviewers were allowed to breeze into the Advanced Review status (which I took very seriously and took 2 months and eight reviews before I applied) I was shot down, and some of the people who shot me down were.... well, let's just say people who (to me) represented Eden and should have known better.

I think we can all try to ignore repetitive threads, obvious point farming and still be welcoming.

I think we are going through a transition at Eden, as this is a dynamic site and a dynamic business and we all need to be able to adapt to new things as we go. (How many times do we hear, "It was so and so when I got here and now it sucks." from older reviewers. Things change.)

Yes, we need to be welcoming. I think a short answer and a kind suggestion to read the reviews may be a good idea. (As we all know the "Search" function could use some revamping and isn't really the fix for the issue.) I also think a lot of new members somehow think we all own all the toys Eden offers (I think Brandon told me recently, there are over 50,000 individual items on sale by Eden!) and don't realize that their thread may not be answered or may not realize that the reviews will answer most of their questions. We do however, need to help get fresh members in the habit of reading reviews to learn about products, though. It's how most of us learn, and it's essential to function at Eden. Not to mention we all feel the "publish or die" pressure, so more readings of our reviews the better for all of us.

Thank you for bringing this up.

less