As a mother of two, I do take this personally. I hope that I didn't overstep the boundaries here. I'm trying to act maturely about this; but there are some MAJOR problems with this mentality. And I hope that we can discuss this without a major flag festival.

So the solution is to segregate people because they have children? Like it's a social faux pas? How many more ways are we going to find to discriminate? Is this along the lines of the government here trying to pass a bill that would allow businesses to turn away open homosexuals (that did not pass)? Or are we going back to the 60s and acting like we did for race segregation? Do people with children need to sit at the back of the bus or the back of the plane now too? Or are parents with small children who might misbehave not allowed to enjoy a meal that the mom (or dad) didn't have to prep, cook, and clean up themselves? Most parents of small children are wise enough to know (and usually can't afford it anyway) not to bring their infants and toddlers into fine dining establishments. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to pay $75 for a steak dinner for me, Mr, and the kids. Restaurants like that are reserved for special occasions and date nights.

I understand what it's like to have your meal ruined by a screaming kid. I've had it happen when it WAS my kid and when it WASN'T my kid. First of all, it's embarrassing as FUCK to have your kid not behave in public. You're not happy about it. As a parent, you're trying to figure out the best way to handle the situation without making an even bigger scene.

For example, Do I just try and get her to calm down at the table or do I remove her from the table and have her screaming all throughout the restaurant? How am I going to get her to stop screaming? If I spank her, someone might call the cops and she's just going to cry harder. (I don't spank, FYI, just throwing out the options.) I can threaten to not have a privilege. I can hug her and soothe her and get her to quiet down (which, actually usually works well unless she's misbehaving for disciplinary reasons). I'm apologizing to everyone in the restaurant already. I know that all you're thinking is "fucking shut your kid up." So overall, my night is already fucked. Not only am I the most hated person in the restaurant, but I can't even enjoy the pasta I ordered because I'm having to deal with my child.

This doesn't happen every time we go out to eat. Maybe three times in the last year has either of my children misbehaved in a restaurant. So, now I'm not even allowed to bring them in on the OFF CHANCE they MIGHT misbehave?

I just *LOVE* how people without children think that if a child misbehaves it's because there's a lack of structure or discipline in the house. Excuse me, but you don't live with me. I'd also like to know what makes you, the childless one, a better parent than me? (Sorry if that seems rude, but I have a lot of friends who have no children who seem keen on offering me advice. Perhaps the outside view is needed sometimes, but if you don't have children of your own, I have a hard time knowing how you could possibly know what will work for my children, who you don't even know.) less

here here, I am the mother of an autistic child, at any age in any situation he could go from perfect quiet well behaved child to monster in 5 seconds. I hate it just as much as the people staring at us, but those stares and comments or even walking up to us do nothing at all to help my son calm down, you will only escalate the situation.

My son goes with us everywhere, he doesn't eat normal food even at 5, and I don't want to sit around a mcdonalds playground just because hes a kid when he doesn't eat it and I want a nice dinner. We carry a bag of tricks with us everywhere, books, toys, video games etc and even then I do not have the magic answer to solve every problem with him. If he gets out of hand we will leave somewhere, but sometimes I know you just need to ignore him for a few minutes and let him deal with his emotions then come to us for his comfort. I'm not going to ruin my extremely rare dinner out or a much needed shopping trip just because my child is whining or having a momentary tantrum.

Trust me, me and my husband don't want to be around that just as much as you, but we have a responsibility and leaving everywhere every single time they disrupt someone teaches him nothing and just lets a kid know the world revolves around them. I'm not going to teach my child that, he is part of a family and sometimes other people in the family need to do something and you just have to learn to deal with it. less

I think there should be more pressure on the parents to take care of their children rather than on the establishment to enforce it. I've seen young children who are perfectly well behaved and would do fine at restaurants. My parents always took us out of a store if we started to cry or get upset. More parents should do that. less

At first I read this and thought, why not? Then I thought about it more and read what other people posted. I think if they do pass some sort of law on it, it should be based on how unruly and loud the child is. Here's what happens from my point of view: When I hear a child scream or shriek, I get a pretty much instant headache and instant tension and stress that really aggravates my back and neck problems. If I do get a migraine and then get nauseous from it, I hope you can understand how a shrieking child can make me upset if I am at a restaurant, especially a slightly nicer one.

That being said, I do not think people should ban kids from being in restaurants. As stated in other posts, not all 4 year olds throw constant temper tantrums. There are some really amazingly well behaved kids out there. Some 4 year olds act more polite, quiet, etc. than some 10 year olds. In the case of a restaurant, maybe if a child is screaming for more than 5 or so minutes, they should be asked to take their child outside or something to try and calm the child down or ask what the problem is (insert parenting skills here). Although I am not a parent so I cannot truly understand, I can only imagine how embarrassing it can be to have a child misbehave like that in public like a restaurant setting.

If you are in a store or the mall or something, I think it's easier to just walk out for a moment or ask the cashier to watch your planned purchases for a few minutes to take the child outside and calm them down. I can understand how that can make people lose business and upset other customers, and honestly, I don't think it's fair if you are trying to shop and have to listen to a kid screaming like a banshee the whole time you're in there. If it's disrupting other people and it can't be controlled, take it elsewhere to try and figure it out or come back another time. While I know it's a pain to have to leave and come back, if you go shopping with someone else, maybe you or the other spouse can watch the kid outside while the other finishes up shopping. less

But removing your children doesn't always help. I realize that you're upset, but I am too, and so is my child. In situations like HHSM, where the child is autistic, any interaction with the child's tantrum just escalates it. The same is true in my 5 year old. If she's about to throw a tantrum, she cannot be disciplined in the moment. It has absolutely no bearing on her. She doesn't GET it. All she knows is she's unhappy and now her parents are yelling at her. I've had a simple "go to your room to cool down" turn into a full-blown episode complete with her becoming violent, and I am just simply trying to get her up the stairs.

I reiterate, I'm NEVER violent with my children. This is not learned from me, or her caregivers. This is how she reacts to situations where she feels out of control.

Us who have children could, in the same spirit, ask you to only go places where the minimum age requirement is 21. In other words, go to a club or a bar if you don't want to be around children. What? You don't want to be told where you can and cannot shop or eat? Well, neither do we. less

But removing your children doesn't always help. I realize that you're upset, but I am too, and so is my child. In situations like HHSM, where the child is autistic, any interaction with the child's tantrum just escalates it. The same is true in my 5 year old. If she's about to throw a tantrum, she cannot be disciplined in the moment. It has absolutely no bearing on her. She doesn't GET it. All she knows is she's unhappy and now her parents are yelling at her. I've had a simple "go to your room to cool down" turn into a full-blown episode complete with her becoming violent, and I am just simply trying to get her up the stairs.

I reiterate, I'm NEVER violent with my children. This is not learned from me, or her caregivers. This is how she reacts to situations where she feels out of control.

Us who have children could, in the same spirit, ask you to only go places where the minimum age requirement is 21. In other words, go to a club or a bar if you don't want to be around children. What? You don't want to be told where you can and cannot shop or eat? Well, neither do we. less

Being a mother of a 7 year old and a two year old I am not going to get into a big discussion on this topic for fear of seeming to be rude or accidentally breaking terms of conduct. However what I will say is wouldn't a better solution be designating times for families or people with kids? Not all families go out to Mcdonalds or burger king some do enjoy or want to teach their children what its like to eat at a restaurant. I think a better compromise for the situations is to say no kids after 8 for example so if you want to dine without hearing children go to dinner after said time and that way everyone wins and no one feels excluded.

Having children is the most challenging complicated ever changing job one can have but it is also the most rewarding in my eyes. Anyone who thinks is cut and dry and oh so simple has another thing coming to them if/when they have kids less

I know there are some parents out there who make no attempt to control a situation, trust me, I would love to make them leave as well because they are throwing my kid off. But often it is just impractical or impossible for people to come back another time or be outside (ie in severe cold areas in winter or heat in the summer) and then there are the single parents or parents with multiple children. One child can't learn that they have control over the whole group just by throwing a tantrum. less

It's discrimination, plain and simple. I am admittedly a parent, but I believe I would have the same opinion if I weren't. You are attributing poor restaurant behavior to all children, which is neither fair nor true. The problem is that the bad experiences are always the ones that stand out. If you think about how many times you've actually eaten out relative to the number of bad experiences, I bet it is a fraction at best.

Another area that I have experienced similar discrimination is with dog breeds. Many cities/counties have enacted laws discriminating against certain breeds such as pit bulls, Rottweilers, etc. These laws were passed because the actions of a few were unfairly attributed to the breed as a whole. less

It's discrimination, plain and simple. I am admittedly a parent, but I believe I would have the same opinion if I weren't. You are attributing poor restaurant behavior to all children, which is neither fair nor true. The problem is that the bad experiences are always the ones that stand out. If you think about how many times you've actually eaten out relative to the number of bad experiences, I bet it is a fraction at best.

Another area that I have experienced similar discrimination is with dog breeds. Many cities/counties have enacted laws discriminating against certain breeds such as pit bulls, Rottweilers, etc. These laws were passed because the actions of a few were unfairly attributed to the breed as a whole. less

we are a family of night owls and insomniacs, with a very different schedule than most families, we also look to shop at the not busy times so I avoid when most families are out. So we will be the family at 3am with the annoying kid or in the grocery store at 4am. We avoid public places in normal hours where kids will be out because where kids are, crowds are and that is a whole nother issue. So if a store or restaurant went no kids after 8 (which honestly by 8 me and my husband are barely even thinking of what to have for dinner let alone eat it) they would lose our business. less

Very good points about the weather, I didn't even think of that and I can't imagine how horrible it would be to stand out in the cold or heat especially! When it comes to children with developmental disabilities such as autism, it is even more difficult because the situation can like you said, change from one extreme to the other in almost no time. This I also didn't consider. I understand it's difficult to teach any child, especially those with developmental disabilities, that they cannot control the situation by getting upset. I have seen and read accounts of children that would attack other people in my learning and behavior class. One child would bite, scratch, attack everyone. The child injured strangers, family, etc. They had to wear shin guards and other gear to try and prevent injury. This child also tried to escape always. He would run through doors, climb through ceilings and air ducts. Today he is doing so much better, but it takes so long to get to that, and even then it is something that cannot always be controled or help. It is a different type of challenge when you have a child with special needs, but it is a different kind of reward in a way too. Simple things that other parents may take for granted take on a new meaning. Nothing can ever be completely controlled as I'm sure you know less

I agree that I definitely see the concern and frustration. I have not only witnessed but experienced the devastation of an otherwise lovely time for the customers as well as the business by boisterous or destruction children. Ugh. They annoy me greatly but their parents just downright piss me off cause, really, it's their fault and not the children.

But I also see a major flaw with trying to make an "age rule" too. Cause, like MaryExy said, there are plenty of small children that are very well behaved and many older kids that are the worst I've seen. Not always does age have to do with it. In fact, I say it's up to 90% the parents and not the kids.

I think it'd be much more reasonable and enforceable to put more emphasis on the responsibility of people bringing in children. Maybe it should be posted as a rule of the establishment, just like "children under 12 need to be accompanied by an adult". It could be something like "adults are responsible for the behavior of their children and will be asked to leave if multiple complaints are made and not addressed". less

But removing your children doesn't always help. I realize that you're upset, but I am too, and so is my child. In situations like HHSM, where the child is autistic, any interaction with the child's tantrum just escalates it. The same is true in my 5 year old. If she's about to throw a tantrum, she cannot be disciplined in the moment. It has absolutely no bearing on her. She doesn't GET it. All she knows is she's unhappy and now her parents are yelling at her. I've had a simple "go to your room to cool down" turn into a full-blown episode complete with her becoming violent, and I am just simply trying to get her up the stairs.

I reiterate, I'm NEVER violent with my children. This is not learned from me, or her caregivers. This is how she reacts to situations where she feels out of control.

Us who have children could, in the same spirit, ask you to only go places where the minimum age requirement is 21. In other words, go to a club or a bar if you don't want to be around children. What? You don't want to be told where you can and cannot shop or eat? Well, neither do we. less