The New Intimacy

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Contributor: geekkink geekkink
Hi, everyone.

Geekkink here, aka Allen, aka that guy who swears in all his articles, posts and reviews. I frequent the Poly forums a lot, and it amazes me the number of people who feel they need to post answers to questions about poly when they are not poly, literally starting their answers with I'm not poly but...

Look when someone posts a question posed to poly people, non-poly people don't need to answer. I don't ask my mechanics opinions about my back problems, that is what doctors are for. If I post a SexIs article about polyamory and you want to add your two cents to that, knock your socks off, SexIs is doesn't have separate forums. Would you answer a question about chickens if you didn't have any? No, why do people feel the need to act like than are masters of this subject than?

Lastly, and the reason I felt I need to post this, literally every topic in this forum has at least one post from some person who needs to pipe up and tell all of us poly people how disgusting we are. If you feel that way fine, I don't really care, I've got two people who love me, you have one, if you have any. If you find us so disgusting, why would you ever, go to the poly forums. I posted this to another one of these kind of comments and I'll post it here. If I jumped into a giant lake filled with shit, knowing full and well because the giant sign in front of it said warning, "GIANT LAKE OF SHIT, DO NOT JUMP INTO!" I'm going to look really fucking stupid when I go "Ohh this is a giant lake of shit, I think I'm gonna puke." Someone actually posted that poly sickens them, did you not see the sign? You have to click a link, that says Polyamory, that takes you to the poly forums, if it grosses you out, don't go there and than read things. Fuck!
10/19/2012
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Contributor: Kindred Kindred
Quote:
Originally posted by geekkink
Hi, everyone.

Geekkink here, aka Allen, aka that guy who swears in all his articles, posts and reviews. I frequent the Poly forums a lot, and it amazes me the number of people who feel they need to post answers to questions about poly ... more
I disagree. Just because a person does not identify as Poly does not mean that they do not have anything valuable to add to the discussion. This should be an open forum that welcomes all opinions, not one that is exclusive because of one's "credentials." If people are posting wrong information, correct them, but don't broadly say that anyone who isn't Poly has no right to comment in this forum.

And every forum is going to have trolls/haters. This is not unique to the EF Poly forums. Also, I read threads from the "All Discussions" tab, so I don't necessarily see what forum a particular discussion is started in, partly because most threads are started in the wrong thread anyway.

Rather than be angry, use it as an opportunity to educate.
10/19/2012
Contributor: geekkink geekkink
I disagree with your first statement, obviously, No sorry if your not poly and your only input is it's disgusting you have nothing of value to add to a discussion. If you are not poly and the question is posed to poly people, it's not for non-poly people to answer. If the question was about poly and was asked, "What does everyone think about poly." than sure everyone can answer.
Focusing only on who gets to be offended. It's about social contract, If you walked into a gay bar, and were surprised and offended that you were in a gay bar, despite all the warnings that blatantly informed you it was a gay bar, your right to be offended does not out weigh the rights of the people to be in their bar, not listening to you be offend.
10/19/2012
Contributor: Kindred Kindred
Quote:
Originally posted by geekkink
I disagree with your first statement, obviously, No sorry if your not poly and your only input is it's disgusting you have nothing of value to add to a discussion. If you are not poly and the question is posed to poly people, it's not for ... more
In your own example you suggest that you would only go to a medical doctor for medical advice. A doctor has likely not experienced every medical disease and yet their opinion is still valuable. Why? Because they educate themselves on the subject matter and make themselves informed. Similarly, what about a make OB/GYN? Certainly they still have valuable information regarding their female patients? I'm not saying that everyone's input has value, but they have a right to post in a public forum. Additionally, people who do not identify as poly can contribute to a discussion meaningfully. Someone who is poly does not mean they know everything or is always right regarding poly issues, nor do they have a monopoly on the subject.

I think you're confusing people who are ignorant and generalizing that ignorance to everyone who is not poly. As I said, if you use it as an opportunity to educate others, there might be fewer ignorant comments. At the very least, there might be one less ignorant person in the world.
10/20/2012
Contributor: geekkink geekkink
You assume the world is a happy place where people can learn to not be ignorant, I am not. Human beings, are known to stand and protest the funerals of slain soldiers and blame their deaths on the fact that gays exist. Just recently a bunch of people went to eat at one of the most disgusting fast food places on earth, because the owner doesn't like fags. I learned a long time ago that ignorance can not, and will not be erased through smiles, and turning the other cheek. Rights are earned one of two ways, either being abused so bad that people start to feel bad for you, or taking them. That is my point of why I won't be.. supportive.

I am willing to call things what they are, as to my doctor example, my Doctor studied being one for at least eight years, if not ten. If you have a Ph.d in human sexuality, I will listen to your opinion of poly. People seem to assume these days that, "I have internet means my opinion matters." It doesn't. You can support gay rights, you can wave flags, and carry signs. If your not gay, you have no damn idea what it's like to be gay. You can say you feel bad for the way black people are treated, until you are one, you'll never understand it. Poly is the same way, unless you live it you can not understand how we function. Try going to a family function where you can't kiss or touch your girlfriend because her grand parents don't know about or relationship. Smile and laugh as all your supportive friends have no idea how to refer to you. Most of the questions that appear in this forum, are about the poly relationship dynamic, I assure you it's fucking different from a monogamous one. Are there similarities most certainly, is it the same, not at all. If you have a PH.d in human sexuality, an or human social psychology, or sociology, or anthropology, hell I'll even accept a masters degree than sure, you can add to a conversation, on polyamory.
10/20/2012
Contributor: geekkink geekkink
Using the Doctor example for instance I've known a suregon for who has been one for twenty years, I wouldn't ask him for surgery because all his patients we're animals. Sure it's basically the same thing but when you need a heart transplant, that is not going to be very comforting is it?
10/20/2012
Contributor: - Kira - - Kira -
I agree with both of you to some extent. If a question is directly posed to poly people such as "how does X work in a poly relationship?" then it should most likely be answered by those who have first hand experience, not those who are just guessing.

If it's a more general question or something like "what do you think happens with X in poly?" then anyone can answer.

In a perfect world, yes, everyone would be educated on topics like this. You seem to assume the opposite - that everyone is *not* educated. There are people who are educated on poly despite not being poly themselves. While it's not the same as first hand experience, learning as much about it as possible is something to be commended.

I think by saying "it's not the same so they shouldn't be able to comment" isn't the way to go about it. Rather, be happy that someone not in that lifestyle has gone out of their way to learn about it. How can something gain acceptance if those who don't follow the same path aren't educated on it? Plus many non-poly folk in the forums have come to the defense of poly in conversations, myself included in that.
10/20/2012
Contributor: Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
(EF Review Program Mentor)
Wow! I was kinda wondering when the issue would come down to flaming. These forums have an open policy. You aren't going to win friends and influence people by telling them they don't matter, and have no right to answer questions in whatever forum they land in, Geekkink.
That's not how EF works or the world, actually.

There will always be people who think it's ok to attack on a faceless forum. The thing is, attacking back doesn't make it right or even make your point. If you ignore the small minded they become bored and move on, but if you build them a bonfire they will roast YOUR weenies until there's nothing left but a charred wasteland.

Besides, I answer questions asked about monogamy all the time! I have something to say, and I understand responsible monogamy as much as I do responsible non-monogamy. There's room here in this forum for all opinions and beliefs.

Polyamory is as touchy a subject as homosexuality is. (I use this example only because it was brought up in other posts.) People fear what they cannot understand, and do not feel the need to experience. Our homosexual pioneers put up with a whole lot of shit even here on EF,are we poly folk too delicate to do the same?
I remember the whole brouhaha when anal play for men was the raging issue. Holy cow, the number of people who were "disgusted" and just sure it meant that any guy who liked anal play was gay! We politely and patiently educated people until it just wasn't an issue.

Getting up in kindred's face on this issue is really a losing proposition since he was one of the leading forces in re-educating people about what it truly means to be homosexual. ...and he's heterosexual. He used his opinions and knowledge to inform and educate about a subject he is not familiar with.

Opposing opinions are the grist for our mill here and everyone has the right to say what they feel as long as it's within the guidelines set by EF, itself.

What should really sadden, and maybe even infuriate, you is the prevailing sentiment that JEALOUSY is what makes a happy marriage and stable home. Being "too jealous" is just so totally accepted as a legitimate reason to be monogamous. It is agreed on, here even in EF land, that it's ok to threaten to kill, beat, or take everything a person owns if they should DARE to have sex with someone else. THIS should be your real moral outrage. It is NOT ok to hurt someone for ANY reason, it is NOT ok to OWN someone's sexual choices, and jealousy (even if it's mutual) doesn't make your relationship more safe, or real, than the lack of jealousy in mine.

Saying, "I'm jealous of my lover" is not the same as saying, "I love my lover". It's a warning sign that your lover should be angry with you or even leave you as fast as possible because you are not being loving. You are saying you cannot trust, and do not accept, their declarations of love as truth. Your fear is more important than your love if you are jealously "guarding" that love. Love is not a switch that gets turned on and off. It doesn't end when you meet someone else and share intimacies with them.
10/20/2012
Contributor: KrissyNovacaine KrissyNovacaine
MEEEP!

Can I ask everyone to take a time out? Things are getting heated. Quickly.

Everyone can have whatever opinion they like. There are something things that consenting adults do that creeps me out, but I support their ability to do so. I also still happily interact with those folks.

I think the problem is the amount of hate that gets heaped on poly folks on this thread. I have made posts that were misinterpreted in the porn forum and had the admins come down on it. Here, on this one, it's ok to say that poly sickens you, or that it is weird. So many threads here have bigotry in them. Poly isn't given the same protection as other topics are. Maybe the admins just don't check this forum that often. I don't think it is intentional.

I don't agree with GeekKink. If I only went to the poly people I know for advice, well, I would have a really screwed up relationship if I go by their model, so anyone who loves has insight into love. My only problem is coming on here and getting hate and revulsion directed at me.

I also don't agree with Kindred. It's not just shrug and move on because there are always going to be trolls. This is a place that prides its self on not having that. So let's fix it. Let's say it isn't ok to do this.

Let's use this as a way to make things better rather than squabble.
10/20/2012
Contributor: Neotigress Neotigress
Quote:
Originally posted by geekkink
Hi, everyone.

Geekkink here, aka Allen, aka that guy who swears in all his articles, posts and reviews. I frequent the Poly forums a lot, and it amazes me the number of people who feel they need to post answers to questions about poly ... more
At the risk of seeming to pile on... seems pretty straight forward to me...

a. Eden is an open forum community: meaning you're going to get all opinions and all levels of critical thinking abilities. That is what makes Eden wonderful at the end of the day.

b. If you don't like something, then don't look at it or buy it, or comment on it. If you think poly is sick, twisted or evil, then don't go into the poly forum and bash. (I promise I won't go into what-ever-floats-your- boat forum and bash there). Its basic respect.

c. Ya'll chill out. We all share a common sex positive open-minded thing.. work from the common ground and let live.

d. whatever consenting grown up adults do in the privacy of their home isn't anyone elses place to pass judgement on (see b).

That is all.

... steps off soap box...
10/20/2012
Contributor: Kindred Kindred
Quote:
Originally posted by KrissyNovacaine
MEEEP!

Can I ask everyone to take a time out? Things are getting heated. Quickly.

Everyone can have whatever opinion they like. There are something things that consenting adults do that creeps me out, but I support their ability to do ... more
I apologize if my posts came across as heated or angry, that was not my intent at all. I think this is an extremely important discussion to have.

And to clarify, I think there are different types of negative posts possible. One is the typical troll, and I do believe the adage of "don't feed the trolls" is accurate. Trolls simply want to illicit a response from you, no matter how. However, there are also those that post hateful remarks, but I think some of these are simply hateful out of ignorance. There are also those that will post incorrect information. It is the latter two examples that I feel pose an opportunity to educate. How can anyone hope for acceptance if they are not willing to educate others about what you stand for or what is meaningful to you? To believe that a person that is poly is the only one that can respond meaningfully to a question about polyamory is elitist and exclusionary.

I admittedly know very little about polyamory. However, I feel I have learned some by reading/editing both your and geekkink's SexIs articles. You both have a lot to offer to those that are not as informed on the subject, but I think an opportunity is missed if you simply choose to dismiss those that you feel are unqualified to contribute in a discussion on the forums simply because they are not also poly.

Edit: I forgot to also mention that if you do come across posts that you believe are inappropriate, you should notify the Forum Moderator so that EF can investigate and take appropriate action.
10/20/2012
Contributor: geekkink geekkink
Quote:
Originally posted by - Kira -
I agree with both of you to some extent. If a question is directly posed to poly people such as "how does X work in a poly relationship?" then it should most likely be answered by those who have first hand experience, not those who are ... more
This is actually my original point. If they ask for the opinion of poly people that is who should answer.
10/21/2012
Contributor: Ansley Ansley
As I just stated in this post, no one dictates where, or when, or how a contributor participates, except for the administrators of Edenfantasys.

As Kindred and Airen have stated (the two members in this thread who have been here the longest), Eden is an open forum. Anyone may express their opinion regardless of how ignorant or inappropriate you may feel it is. So long as it adheres to the Expectations of Conduct it is most welcome and encouraged.

No one learns by being silenced. The world does not benefit from having unpopular opinions squashed and shoved down as if to say it is not relevant to the growth of society as a whole.

If the world operated according to your post, geekkink then no one would ever be able to comment on anything they had never experienced before and my what a sad and horrible place that would be. Whatever would do when you learned everything you could from the opinions you deemed peer-worthy?

Contrasting and conflicting opinions is how we get things like Equal Pay for Equal Work, it's how we get rid of things like Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

Limiting oneself to the opinion of only those you deem worthy is a very exclusionary way of making sure you go through life with blinders on and it's an even better way to lose every teaching moment that life puts in front of you so that more people are educated and understanding and accepting of people and their identities.

What you do with those opinions is entirely up to you, and you don't have to let them impact your decisions nor do you have to respond to them. If it is something that is violation of the EoC, bring it forth to the moderator as Kindred advised. The administrators are more than happy to look into the matter and discuss it privately.

But at the end of the day, on Edenfantasys a properly worded response and a gentle hand of guidance is always the best course of action when you see something you disagree with.
10/26/2012