@ Eliza: WOW! That's amazing that you actually thought you had written it! Unfortunately, I have met more than a few people with similar stories and I have to wonder how many people would still be affiliated with their religion (especially Catholicism) if they didn't have such bad early experiences. How sad to be driven away by the actions of those supposed to be the ambassadors of that faith. Of course I refer specifically to my experience, but I know it's not exclusive to Catholics, though I only hear those horror stories of mean parochial school from Catholics, hmmm...

@ Edeneve: Re: Original Sin. At least for Catholics (and likely more Christian religions), Original Sin does have to do with babies. The belief is that the O.S. stained humanity and that taint is passed down to all humans. "a consequence of this first sin, the hereditary stain with which we are born on account of our origin or descent from Adam." You can read more here. I agree with Lvstoplay, it is something I have always rejected and it sounded ridiculous to me.

And I, too, am really happy to see such a non-confrontational approach to this topic by everyone! less

Yes I've hidden my pentagram from the sight of others many times for fear of the response I'd get. I live in a predominately closed minded, Christian community. It's very common where I live to see any belief that is not Christian put down, and there are members in my family even who try to push their Christian beliefs on me. less

I would have to say the worse I have encountered is my parents took me to see a psychologist when I was teenager because I identified as a Satanist. Said psychologist then diagnosed me with mental illness because of that belief...and only that belief. Thankfully I switched Dr.s in my mid teens and the new one threw out any diagnoses of mental illness and tried to calmly explain to my parents that religious beliefs different than theirs doesn't mean that a person has mental illness.

Now as to others, I had a friend who over ten years ago was threatened by CYS because of their affiliation with a Satanic church/coven. The CYS(child protective services)reports stated that their children were in danger because of parental involvement in Satanism and Satanic symbols in the home. These symbols merely consisted of the basic alter with a Baphomet statue. No other reasons were cited in the reports. Another friend of ours went through similar "checks" because of involvement in Wicca.

That is why I get so angry when I hear Christians claim that they get discriminated against. They don't have to wonder if others are going to view their religious belief as a symptom of mental illness. They can believe in angels and demons freely, yet my belief in demons must be a sign something is wrong with my head. They can believe in prayer and its power yet the belief in witchcraft/magic becomes "magical thinking" in the eyes of psychology. Most importantly they don't have to wonder if a neighbor or family member is going to call child protective services on them because of their religion. Hell, none of the Satanic churches will perform a baptism on a person under 18, mainly for fear of legal issues or parents losing custody of their children. less

Satanism and Wicca are not the same thing, not sure if that was what you were trying to imply or not. I didn't even honestly know that Satanic practices involved baptisms. Are the churches similar to Christian ones or is it more like a large group meeting outdoors or at someone's house? While I personally don't care for Satanic practices I am interested in learning about various religious beliefs. less

I am adding this post to help others understand the differences between Wicca and Satanism.

Some people view Wicca and Pagan religions in general to be a form of Satanism. They are far from it. From my encounters with Wiccans and Pagans it is very clear that first and foremost they can not be Satanists because they don't believe in Satan. They are also more nature oriented and polytheistic.

There are two major subsets of Satanism. LaVeyan Satanism, which is actually atheistic and Theistic Satanism which does view Satan as a deity and worships him as such.

It is not uncommon for both Wicca and Satanism to also practice "witchcraft" . Everything from belief systems, philosophy and symbols are different. The only Symbol shared is a star. For Wicca and Paganism this star is usually called a Pentacle* and it is right side up, while for Satanism it is upside down and many times has a goat head inside it and called either a Pentagram or Sigil of Baphomet. Even the symbolism of the star is different.


*From my encounters with Wiccan and Pagans they usually call it a Pentacle.

Edit: If any one who is Wiccan or Pagan feels comfortable enough I would love for you help describe your religious beliefs as best as possible and can do the same for mine. less

I am adding this post to help others understand the differences between Wicca and Satanism.

Some people view Wicca and Pagan religions in general to be a form of Satanism. They are far from it. From my encounters with Wiccans and Pagans it is very clear that first and foremost they can not be Satanists because they don't believe in Satan. They are also more nature oriented and polytheistic.

There are two major subsets of Satanism. LaVeyan Satanism, which is actually atheistic and Theistic Satanism which does view Satan as a deity and worships him as such.

It is not uncommon for both Wicca and Satanism to also practice "witchcraft" . Everything from belief systems, philosophy and symbols are different. The only Symbol shared is a star. For Wicca and Paganism this star is usually called a Pentacle* and it is right side up, while for Satanism it is upside down and many times has a goat head inside it and called either a Pentagram or Sigil of Baphomet. Even the symbolism of the star is different.


*From my encounters with Wiccan and Pagans they usually call it a Pentacle.

Edit: If any one who is Wiccan or Pagan feels comfortable enough I would love for you help describe your religious beliefs as best as possible and can do the same for mine. less

Oh, I know they are very different. I merely mentioned the Wiccan friends issues because Wicca was the basis for the child protective services to be involved much like my fellow Satanist. Both were only guilty of having a religion that was not mainstream and were nearly considered unfit parents because of it.

Mostly churches/covens are group meetings. There are a few actual churches. I think Church of Satan has at least one actual church, but I'm not 100% sure. less

I am confused as to how LeVeyan Satanism counts itself as Satanism if they are atheist. Can you elaborate a bit on the difference between the two types of Satanism?

Also I really appreciated your last post. I think you did a good job at explaining the basic differences between Paganism and Satanism. I am of the general impression that Satanism is more into black magick and living sacrifices, though I may be wrong, this has been my experience with those I have run across who identify as Satanic. Wicca has what is called the Wiccan Rede which tells us not to harm anyone/anything, while all who abide by this would agree that means no living sacrifices and essentially no black magick some schools take it a little further and say most defensive magick is off limits too. less

Many Theistic Satanists are just as confused, yet highly amused when they try to defend their form of Satanism by loudly and disgustingly proclaiming that they do not worship Satan or even believe in him. Yeah, they get pissed when a person says "Oh, you are a Satanist. So you worship Satan?"

But yes, LeVeyan Satanists are atheistic. For them Satan is merely a "symbol" they use to represent various different aspects of human nature etc. Amusingly enough they refer to Theistic Satanists as pseudo-Satanists, stating that we can't be true Satanists because we either recognize Satan as a deity or some other "Darker Power". It is not uncommon for there to be strife when ever the two cross paths. And we are typically not allowed to frequent their forums or at the least discuss Theistic Satanism there.

Satanists do in fact dabble more into "black magic". The three fold "rule" (what you send out comes back upon you three fold) is a non factor in our beliefs. Most rituals and "spells" call for tapping into darker energies. Some might even dabble with demon invocation. Living sacrifices are largely symbolic, although not they are not unheard of. Not a single ritual calls for human sacrifice. All life is to be respected but only in the capacity that it has shown respect, but enemies may be attacked. We hold firmly to the belief of accountability of ones actions or inactions. We place no blame on others for our short comings and must own up to our mistakes as that is the path to personal growth. We consider ignorance to be sin and strive for wisdom in all aspects be it intellectual or even on a personal level of knowing oneself.
I have encountered people over the years that have believed that Satanic rituals often involve orgies or that a person must be sexually depraved to be a member of a Satanic coven. This is a total myth, while many do seek to explore sexual freedom there are others who choose to remain chaste. We have no "rules" on sex or sexuality except that all parties involved must be participating of their own free will.
Balance is another important thing. Nature must be balanced, for every thing you take you must also give back at the very least in equal. This not only pertains to magic but also in day to day living. less

By living sacrifice I wasn't just referring to humans, but to animals as well. The few groups I have encountered in neighboring cities sacrifice animals for what they call "feast days," drinking from the blood of whatever they kill. I would assume it is for some kind of blood magick but I'm honestly not certain. One of the groups did actually prefer to use a child for their most sacred feast day, but I don't know if that group is still together as the law had stepped in and several were arrested. I'm not honestly sure if anyone of the ones around me have a certain sect they follow or not, just that they claim to worship Satan and have formed a few cults. I think this is part of why my own town is scared of magick and anyone who practices any kind of witchcraft.

I am familiar the three-fold law, it is part of the Wiccan belief system. We too try to give back for all that we take from the land. While we don't have much in the way of rules governing sex, other than that it has to be consensual and legal (i.e. adults, not children), however we also tend to consider sex to be sacred. There's also a sexual form of magick, which can be quite interesting. less

Every Satanic coven I know would would horrified by the thought of even harming a child. We can not harm the innocent, nor can we corrupt the innocent in any manner. Innocence is something we respect. Animal sacrifice isn't really that common, and like you said usually associated with blood magic and feast days. The animal meat is consumed (cooked) as a feast to perhaps celebrate a birthday, wedding, or other important event for the Coven. View points on this practice vary from Coven to Coven. Like other religions we have our fringe groups. These fringe groups often times are the ones that also mix other views such as Neo-Nazism, criminal activities and/or violent ideologies. These things are in direct conflict with our most basic core beliefs. Respect, personal accountability, rejection of herd mentality and the shedding of ignorance. These groups are not considered to be Satanists. They use Satanism as a justification for their actions so as to shrug personal responsibility of their own actions. Many times these are teenagers or young adults who have no true exposure to a Satanic Coven.

A lot of the negative viewpoints of Satanism were reported in the media during the 80's and early 90's. There was a time of moral panic surrounding Satanic ritual abuse. Accusations of rape, murder and of a so called Satanic conspiracy to commit such acts on a wider scale were wildly reported in News outlets. After a lengthy FBI investigation it was found to be unfounded. The case of the West Memphis Three is one of the most famous Satanic panic cases, as was the McMartin preschool trial. less

Personally, I'm more of an agnostic, despite being raised by a Lutheran mother and Catholic father. I left the church because, frankly, the concept of the abrahamic God and Jesus' death for our sins made no sense to me, and the concept of the Holy Spirit was confusing as well. I'll believe in a god when I see some evidence that supports its existence.

That said, in high school, I took a world religions course hoping to find something that appealed to me, and found nothing. I would like to believe that a person may partially rewrite reality because they are part of the universe, but I cannot justify that belief without believing in some sort of "mental dimension" that affects the world as seen in the spatial dimensions but cannot be perceived through out spatial senses, much like the 4th, temporal dimension. And, as I'm sure you've figured out, I have no evidence for the existence of this 5th dimension beyond the existence of the 4th dimension (time) and the mere hypothetical possibility of its existence, thus creating circular reasoning. My parents have tried to get me to return to the church, but my father's arguments for God and religion in general are full of logical fallacies.

In short, while there is something I would like to believe, I can't because I have no evidence for it, thus making me a hypocrite because lack of evidence is why I left the church in the first place. less

Why yes Wicked Wahine, I am BAA to the bone! Thank you for that little chuckle this morning!

When for whatever reason I'm asked what faith I adhere to, and my reply of Atheist is met with the sharp intake of breath... I often playfully add "and you can thank God, for me becoming Atheist". It is such fun to not fit in sometimes.

I don't consider myself to be an angry Atheist nor do I object to others having faith or feeling that there's something more out there. If that is what they need to get through whatever is going on in their lives, good for them. I do however absolutely reject "them" using their faith based rules to restrict me and my behaviour. Particularly those rules concerning whom I may love and may want to marry. I have no doubt that you feel the same about that kind of thing Wicked Wahine. less

Exactly!!! I do feel the same and unfortunately, I can't think of anything witty to add to that, hah!

I am glad you got a chuckle out of what I said because I thought it was funny and it's always nice to not be the only one laughing.

Hey, you didn't think I implied you were an angry atheist, did you? While I am sure you can get plenty angry about what you just mentioned (me, too, for that matter), I don't for a second consider you an angry character and I've read plenty a post from you over these two or so years. I do think there is this stereotype of the angry atheist, so it was definitely worth addressing. You are probably of an age where you remember Life magazine's "The Most Hated Woman in America", am I right? Now, she was definitely a cranky one, lol! (Who could blame her though with all the death threats from the theists? Granted, she was irascible before that, haha.) less

I am going to give you all a perfect example of one of the types of religious discrimination that can occur. We had a massive over hall of our schedule. I was originally not scheduled to work on one of my most highest holidays, due to the schedule change I now work that day. This day is very important in my religion and I do observe it. When this was brought to higher ups attention(after dealing with supervisor) I was rather rudely told that they do not consider Satanism to be a valid religion, and that they only accommodate those who need Christian Holidays/Sabbaths off. I offered a suggestion of reasonable accommodation and was again told no.

Some of the things I got to hear were : 1. The company does not recognize Satanism as an actual religion. 2. They only have to accommodate certain religions, but not those that they find offensive. 3. I can be fired if I call off to observe 4. I can not wear any item that promotes Satanism...but if I want to wear a Christian cross that is fine. 5. That only Christian Holidays are accommodated. 6. That I need to be dragged to church and be saved. 7. That I should seriously reconsider my religious affiliation as they(the company) are not comfortable having a person who worships the devil work there.


~Sighs~

Welcome to actual discrimination. Keeping in mind that I am the first person to volunteer to work all Christian holidays and I work all Sundays so that my co-workers may observe their religions holidays and attend church services. less