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Gays Still Not allowed in Military

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Contributor: Penguin Penguin
I saw on yahoo news today that the ban on gays being in the military has NOT been lifted. They refused the bill and it is still going to be illegal for gays to be in the military hence don't ask don't tell policy.

Anyone else see this update?
09/22/2010
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Contributor: kck kck
Quote:
Originally posted by Penguin
I saw on yahoo news today that the ban on gays being in the military has NOT been lifted. They refused the bill and it is still going to be illegal for gays to be in the military hence don't ask don't tell policy.

Anyone else see this update?
Yes, I saw it. I think the problem is that the DADT repeal was tacked onto another bill with a whole buncha other stuff on it. As a result, if you're pro-repeal but anti-everything else, how could you vote in favor with a clear conscious? There was also criticism because the repeal wasn't very much talked about. It received little attention and was, therefore, not on everyone's list of priorities.

Harry Reid (Majority Leader) voted against the bill even though he was for it because, according to the "rules," if he votes with the majority he can bring up the bill at a later date. Now, there's a loophole, huh?!
09/22/2010
Contributor: Gary Gary
It blows my mind that in 2010 America we still have problems with this.
09/22/2010
Contributor: DeliciousSurprise DeliciousSurprise
I'm really glad I live in a nice, civilized nation like the United States rather than some backwards country like Argentina, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, México or Nepal.


Wait...
09/22/2010
Contributor: El-Jaro El-Jaro
I've wondered if soldiers have claimed to be gay to get out of going into dangerous situations.

Is it an honorable or dishonorable discharge?
09/22/2010
Contributor: kck kck
Quote:
Originally posted by El-Jaro
I've wondered if soldiers have claimed to be gay to get out of going into dangerous situations.

Is it an honorable or dishonorable discharge?
Not sure, but I read a post by a user who said they feared the repeal would pass because then s/he wouldn't be able to get out of a draft by claiming that s/he was gay (this person is straight).
09/22/2010
Contributor: DeliciousSurprise DeliciousSurprise
Quote:
Originally posted by El-Jaro
I've wondered if soldiers have claimed to be gay to get out of going into dangerous situations.

Is it an honorable or dishonorable discharge?
I'm not entirely sure so if someone from the military can come in here and confirm...?

I believe that it's dependent on circumstances; if you admit to it, you receive a general discharge but if you're caught engaging in a homosexual act, lying directly about your actions and activities, or there are aggravating circumstances involved it's dishonorable.
09/22/2010
Contributor: Envy Envy
Pretty dumb. It's as bad as the religious crap that went on.
09/22/2010
Contributor: Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
(EF Review Program Mentor)
Quote:
Originally posted by Penguin
I saw on yahoo news today that the ban on gays being in the military has NOT been lifted. They refused the bill and it is still going to be illegal for gays to be in the military hence don't ask don't tell policy.

Anyone else see this update?
I saw that...sad day. I cannot believe this is still an issue. Sexual preference doesn't effect how well you can pull a trigger or load a plane. It's just silly.
09/22/2010
Contributor: Viktor Vysheslav Malkin Viktor Vysheslav Malkin
I think... the white wigs are losing touch... then gain I never knew they had it...

In what way would person who happens to be gay serve any different?
09/22/2010
Contributor: paralax paralax
Quote:
Originally posted by Penguin
I saw on yahoo news today that the ban on gays being in the military has NOT been lifted. They refused the bill and it is still going to be illegal for gays to be in the military hence don't ask don't tell policy.

Anyone else see this update?
Yeah and I can understand the military perspective but I'm against it. The Greeks believed in if your partner was at your side then you would fight twice as hard to protect them and keep the line intact. Those were the old days though. I know of a few gay men in the military and i think it just makes a hard job even harder.
09/22/2010
Contributor: Blinker Blinker
DISCLAIMER: I am not homophobic nor have I ever been. Anyone who wants to know the names of gay friends I have, message me. I am not meaning to offend anyone of any race, ethnicity, creed, gender, home country, eye color, blood type, or sexual orientation. These thoughts are my thoughts and I have expressed them hoping, somewhat naively, that they will be tolerated. I also apologize beforehand if what I say in any way, shape, or form offends anyone in any way. I don't mean for this to happen. Thus the disclaimer.

My whole family is military and my dad and I have been following this story for a while, then I stopped caring about it lately. "Don't ask, don't tell" isn't the harsh line LAW that people think it is. Yes, I think gay rights are important, but in trench warfare and the like...

My dad was a Master Sergeant First Class and was in charge of a large group of men. One particular serviceman came out quite publicly and dared the men around to "do something about it". No one reacted or really cared, but there were a few men who were uncomfortable taking showers with this guy. These guys previously had no qualms about the guy whatsoever, but when he opened that door on his sexuality, it really alienated the men he had to work with. DADT was put in place to make homosexuals more safe and to not be hassled for their lifestyle, but they just have to keep it quiet and make sure it doesn't affect morale or teams. And a lot of people are homophobic and it's better that they don't know the sexual orientation of the men they work with. You gotta live everyday being able to put your life on the line and risk your own life to help your men out, and that split second "But he's gay" thought can hurt more than anyone can imagine.
09/22/2010
Contributor: Darling Jen Darling Jen
Quote:
Originally posted by El-Jaro
I've wondered if soldiers have claimed to be gay to get out of going into dangerous situations.

Is it an honorable or dishonorable discharge?
It's an honorable discharge as long as there no other drama attached to it. BUT there will still be a stigma of why you were discharged following you on paperwork for the rest of forever.

But yes, I saw the update. A friend of mine in the military told me they wouldn't be able to work the repeal at this point in time so I wasn't surprised. Though I would have been without her insight on it.

And before being dumped, this would have greatly affected me since I was with a "female" in the military. But now it has no affect on me whatsoever. Though I still feel it needs to be repealed because there are some wonderful people out there that it does affect (but my ex is not one of those wonderful people).
09/22/2010
Contributor: kck kck
Quote:
Originally posted by Blinker
DISCLAIMER: I am not homophobic nor have I ever been. Anyone who wants to know the names of gay friends I have, message me. I am not meaning to offend anyone of any race, ethnicity, creed, gender, home country, eye color, blood type, or sexual ... more
Yeah, but the problem is that the law is being used for abuse. It's supposed to be Don't Ask, Don't Tell... in reality, it's Don't Be Gay. I've read reports of military officials going through "suspects'" belongings (i.e. - journals, e-mails, etc) and even following up with family, friends, and acquaintances to "make sure" that these people aren't gay. That's infringement of privacy. That's supposed to be against the law, but the law is problematic because it opens to door for targeting and profiling. I have many of the same objections to DADT as I do SB1070 (Arizona's horrendously racist immigration law).
09/22/2010
Contributor: Blinker Blinker
That sounds awesome! And you gotta love the title
09/22/2010
Contributor: kck kck
Is it bad that the song title makes me think of Mulan?
09/22/2010
Contributor: Darling Jen Darling Jen
Quote:
Originally posted by kck
Yeah, but the problem is that the law is being used for abuse. It's supposed to be Don't Ask, Don't Tell... in reality, it's Don't Be Gay. I've read reports of military officials going through "suspects'" ... more
Very well put.

And whether or not people publically come out to their coworkers doesn't change the fact that they're already in and working alongside their straight counterparts just fine. It's a personal issue if the service man or woman becomes uncomfortable with this new information about their peer.

My entire family is also in (or retired from) the military. And they span the entire opinion spectrum of "those gay people" but I know personally that they would all "get over it and continue to work with them professionally for the good of the Soldiers". It IS possible to have open service. Tons of other countries in the world, NATO countries nonetheless, do it just fine.

Also, the clear up the language of DADT. It's not to protect the gays in the military at all. It's an option given to them to give up their personal lives for their career. I won't go quoting the exact article but basically it's still illegal for gays to serve in the military AND lying goes against military honor code. BUT the policy tells them they won't have to lie if they just never act on their sexuality and never mention it. So, to summarize, it says "Gays are not allowed and if we find you, we'll kick you out. The only difference now is that we won't publically or actively witch-hunt you. Give up your homosexuality and we'll let you die for your country."
09/22/2010
Contributor: Avant-garde Avant-garde
This is getting a little bit tiring. Just give them their rights and move on to far more important things that Humanities future really depends on.
09/22/2010
Contributor: twistedheartsx twistedheartsx
How is this not illegal? When people hire you for a job they aren't allowed to judge you on this or anything else. When someone is strong and brave enough to serve our country, let them! I think this is the same as saying a certain race isn't allowed to either.

You shouldn't have to hide who you are. When in America was that fair? I know if someone is willing to protect me it's not going to matter to me who or what they are. I will be equally thankful!
09/23/2010
Contributor: kck kck
Quote:
Originally posted by twistedheartsx
How is this not illegal? When people hire you for a job they aren't allowed to judge you on this or anything else. When someone is strong and brave enough to serve our country, let them! I think this is the same as saying a certain race isn't ... more
Amen!
09/23/2010
Contributor: Riccio Riccio
Well, I think it is immoral and disgusting. Not homosexuality, but the international gangsters called "the military."
09/26/2010
Contributor: usmcwife99 usmcwife99
Quote:
Originally posted by Riccio
Well, I think it is immoral and disgusting. Not homosexuality, but the international gangsters called "the military."
What are your trying to say
09/26/2010
Contributor: usmcwife99 usmcwife99
I have been there, ive saw that issue many times. Its a big arguemnt. Personally I dont have a problems with gays or nor do I judge by sexual orentation. However not all see it that way.


Because not everyone sees it that way I think that its in the militarys best choice to not alow gay indivudals into the miltiary. I say that because you have to spend months at a time with these guys, sometimes in tents smaller then our bathrooms without running water and electricity. Not all military personal will feel comfortable with a gay member sleeping in the bunk next to them.

Alot of the military personal is agaisnt gays. It is critical to focus on the mission, and not the issue of sexuality.
09/26/2010
Contributor: Penguin Penguin
Quote:
Originally posted by kck
Yes, I saw it. I think the problem is that the DADT repeal was tacked onto another bill with a whole buncha other stuff on it. As a result, if you're pro-repeal but anti-everything else, how could you vote in favor with a clear conscious? There ... more
God damn. Didn't they do that with the Patriot act too? Add a bunch of crap right before voting so no one had enough time to read it?
10/01/2010
Contributor: Penguin Penguin
Quote:
Originally posted by El-Jaro
I've wondered if soldiers have claimed to be gay to get out of going into dangerous situations.

Is it an honorable or dishonorable discharge?
When I was in, it was dishonorable. But I'll as my brother who is in now. I'll get back to ya.
10/01/2010
Contributor: Penguin Penguin
Quote:
Originally posted by twistedheartsx
How is this not illegal? When people hire you for a job they aren't allowed to judge you on this or anything else. When someone is strong and brave enough to serve our country, let them! I think this is the same as saying a certain race isn't ... more
That's the issue, they think gays are not strong or brave and don't have the mentality to fight. Most people who hold this opinion feel the same about women...
10/01/2010
Contributor: usmcwife99 usmcwife99
Quote:
Originally posted by Penguin
That's the issue, they think gays are not strong or brave and don't have the mentality to fight. Most people who hold this opinion feel the same about women...
I dont think that at all, its more to do with being comfortable in all situions
10/02/2010
Contributor: ~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
Quote:
Originally posted by usmcwife99
I dont think that at all, its more to do with being comfortable in all situions
Situations? So you don't think gays are comfortable in all situations? I'm confused as to what you are saying or arguing?

I was told it is dishonorable because it means they lied on their application.
10/02/2010
Contributor: sarahbear sarahbear
Quote:
Originally posted by El-Jaro
I've wondered if soldiers have claimed to be gay to get out of going into dangerous situations.

Is it an honorable or dishonorable discharge?
I'm not sure if this is how it always works, but my brother went to boot camp and they figured out he was gay. As in, very effeminate and openly gay. He was sent to answer phones until they could come up with an alternative reason to send him home. He was given a medical discharge, claiming he had anxiety issues and was unable to perform under stress.
10/02/2010
Contributor: sarahbear sarahbear
Quote:
Originally posted by Blinker
DISCLAIMER: I am not homophobic nor have I ever been. Anyone who wants to know the names of gay friends I have, message me. I am not meaning to offend anyone of any race, ethnicity, creed, gender, home country, eye color, blood type, or sexual ... more
The issue with the DADT policy isn't about a bunch of men being scared to be naked around each other. It's just like the gay marriage issue. Things like being able to bring your partner to see you off, like every other family in your unit, when you're being deployed. If they do bring them, they can't kiss them goodbye, hold their hand, or be too affectionate because of DADT. They can't receive the same benefits as other married couples in the military (Insurance, housing, getting extra pay because their spouse is deployed). Their partners can't run through the crowd at the welcome home ceremony and jump into their arms, no matter how excited they are to see them.

Because they aren't legally allowed to marry and homosexuals aren't allowed in the military, their partners won't be notified if something happens to them. They won't be listed as next of kin. As horrible of a thing as it is, a uniformed officer won't show up at their door to tell them their partner was killed in the line of duty. They won't receive the flag that covered their casket before they put it in the ground.

I think the squeamishness of a few homophobic men should be put aside so that these soldiers, who are fighting for our country just as hard as the heterosexual soldiers are, don't have to hide who they are.
10/02/2010