So, here's an interesting question for you all. I identify and live as both/neither gender. I generally view myself as being both or either, and the more I experience, the more I wish I had both sets of genitalia to match my identity. Do you support inter-gender people being able to modify their genitals to match their self-image? Would it even be possible to do? And if it's possible, would I ever be able to find a doctor who would do it?
Genderqueer/Androgyne transitioning?
11/11/2012
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I would imagine it wouldn't really be feasible to do, even if you could find a doctor willing to treat you. From everything I've read, the existing genitals are used to create the new set up, so you'd have to sacrifice your clit for a penis, penis for a vagina, etc.
Originally posted by
AndroAngel
So, here's an interesting question for you all. I identify and live as both/neither gender. I generally view myself as being both or either, and the more I experience, the more I wish I had both sets of genitalia to match my identity. Do you
...
more
So, here's an interesting question for you all. I identify and live as both/neither gender. I generally view myself as being both or either, and the more I experience, the more I wish I had both sets of genitalia to match my identity. Do you support inter-gender people being able to modify their genitals to match their self-image? Would it even be possible to do? And if it's possible, would I ever be able to find a doctor who would do it?
less
11/11/2012
From my understanding, creating a penis has very limited success. Many trans men opt not to go through bottom surgery, or go through a limited surgery involving clitoral ligament release and urethral lengthening, also called a metoidioplasty, resulting in an elongated clitoris and the ability to stand to urinate, though this also usually involves a complete hysterectomy and removal of the vagina, the tissues of which are used to create the urethral lengthening. It generally does not result in a functioning penis that can be used for penetration. Phallioplasty, implantation and grafts to create a penis, has a high rate of aesthetic satisfaction, a very low rate of sensation satisfaction, and a lower rate of functional satisfaction. I don't believe that penises created through phallioplasty are capable of achieving a natural erection from arousal. MtF genital reassignment surgery is much more advanced, unfortunately.
If it was medically possible, then i'd fully support it being available as an option for those who want it, i think it would be a great option for those who fit the profile, but i think you're looking for something that medical science has yet to perfect.
In any case, the penis definitely replaces the clitoris, and skin from the vagina is necessary for the procedure as well. At best, i doubt you'd end up with a full set of both genitals. It /might/ one day be medically possible to create a penis from other skin or somehow generated skin cells or something, while leaving the vagina intact and it might one day be possible to create a penis that allows erectile function and sensation, but you won't ever have a penis, vagina, testicles and a clitoris at the same time. Even in people born intersex this doesn't really happen.
This relates to fetal development of genitalia, explained on wikipedia thusly:
"A few weeks after fertilization, the initial appearance of the human fetal genitalia is basically feminine: a pair of "urogenital folds" with a small protuberance in the middle, and the urethra behind the protuberance.
In typical fetal development, the presence of the SRY gene causes the fetal gonads to become testes; the absence of it allows the gonads to continue to develop into ovaries. Thereafter, the development of the internal reproductive organs and the external genitalia is determined by hormones produced by fetal gonads (ovaries or testes) and the cells' response to them.
If the fetus has testes, and if the testes produce testosterone, and if the cells of the genitals respond to the testosterone, the outer urogenital folds swell and fuse in the midline to produce the scrotum; the protuberance grows larger and straighter to form the penis; the inner urogenital swellings swell, wrap around the penis, and fuse in the midline to form the penile urethra.
If testosterone is not present, normal female development continues, with the development of a perineal urethra and the formation of a uterus, clitoris and vagina.
The Müllerian ducts, which are paired ducts of the embryo which empty into the cloaca, and which develop into the upper vagina, cervix, uterus and oviducts; in the male they disappear except for the vestigial vagina masculina and the appendix testis.
Although female development is usually considered the "default" configuration in the absence of induction, recent evidence has indicated that Wnt4 plays a role in the development of female anatomy.[1]"
Through this you can see that the sex organs have equivalencies in the opposite sex. Clitoris>Penis, Ovaries>Testicles, Labia>Scrotum. Because the essential blueprint for genital development is basically female, MtF surgery, reversing the effects of development, are easier than the FtM surgery which is to create development that never occurred.
If it was medically possible, then i'd fully support it being available as an option for those who want it, i think it would be a great option for those who fit the profile, but i think you're looking for something that medical science has yet to perfect.
In any case, the penis definitely replaces the clitoris, and skin from the vagina is necessary for the procedure as well. At best, i doubt you'd end up with a full set of both genitals. It /might/ one day be medically possible to create a penis from other skin or somehow generated skin cells or something, while leaving the vagina intact and it might one day be possible to create a penis that allows erectile function and sensation, but you won't ever have a penis, vagina, testicles and a clitoris at the same time. Even in people born intersex this doesn't really happen.
This relates to fetal development of genitalia, explained on wikipedia thusly:
"A few weeks after fertilization, the initial appearance of the human fetal genitalia is basically feminine: a pair of "urogenital folds" with a small protuberance in the middle, and the urethra behind the protuberance.
In typical fetal development, the presence of the SRY gene causes the fetal gonads to become testes; the absence of it allows the gonads to continue to develop into ovaries. Thereafter, the development of the internal reproductive organs and the external genitalia is determined by hormones produced by fetal gonads (ovaries or testes) and the cells' response to them.
If the fetus has testes, and if the testes produce testosterone, and if the cells of the genitals respond to the testosterone, the outer urogenital folds swell and fuse in the midline to produce the scrotum; the protuberance grows larger and straighter to form the penis; the inner urogenital swellings swell, wrap around the penis, and fuse in the midline to form the penile urethra.
If testosterone is not present, normal female development continues, with the development of a perineal urethra and the formation of a uterus, clitoris and vagina.
The Müllerian ducts, which are paired ducts of the embryo which empty into the cloaca, and which develop into the upper vagina, cervix, uterus and oviducts; in the male they disappear except for the vestigial vagina masculina and the appendix testis.
Although female development is usually considered the "default" configuration in the absence of induction, recent evidence has indicated that Wnt4 plays a role in the development of female anatomy.[1]"
Through this you can see that the sex organs have equivalencies in the opposite sex. Clitoris>Penis, Ovaries>Testicles, Labia>Scrotum. Because the essential blueprint for genital development is basically female, MtF surgery, reversing the effects of development, are easier than the FtM surgery which is to create development that never occurred.
11/11/2012
Quote:
Best answer ever^
Originally posted by
charletnarouh
From my understanding, creating a penis has very limited success. Many trans men opt not to go through bottom surgery, or go through a limited surgery involving clitoral ligament release and urethral lengthening, also called a metoidioplasty,
...
more
From my understanding, creating a penis has very limited success. Many trans men opt not to go through bottom surgery, or go through a limited surgery involving clitoral ligament release and urethral lengthening, also called a metoidioplasty, resulting in an elongated clitoris and the ability to stand to urinate, though this also usually involves a complete hysterectomy and removal of the vagina, the tissues of which are used to create the urethral lengthening. It generally does not result in a functioning penis that can be used for penetration. Phallioplasty, implantation and grafts to create a penis, has a high rate of aesthetic satisfaction, a very low rate of sensation satisfaction, and a lower rate of functional satisfaction. I don't believe that penises created through phallioplasty are capable of achieving a natural erection from arousal. MtF genital reassignment surgery is much more advanced, unfortunately.
If it was medically possible, then i'd fully support it being available as an option for those who want it, i think it would be a great option for those who fit the profile, but i think you're looking for something that medical science has yet to perfect.
In any case, the penis definitely replaces the clitoris, and skin from the vagina is necessary for the procedure as well. At best, i doubt you'd end up with a full set of both genitals. It /might/ one day be medically possible to create a penis from other skin or somehow generated skin cells or something, while leaving the vagina intact and it might one day be possible to create a penis that allows erectile function and sensation, but you won't ever have a penis, vagina, testicles and a clitoris at the same time. Even in people born intersex this doesn't really happen.
This relates to fetal development of genitalia, explained on wikipedia thusly:
"A few weeks after fertilization, the initial appearance of the human fetal genitalia is basically feminine: a pair of "urogenital folds" with a small protuberance in the middle, and the urethra behind the protuberance.
In typical fetal development, the presence of the SRY gene causes the fetal gonads to become testes; the absence of it allows the gonads to continue to develop into ovaries. Thereafter, the development of the internal reproductive organs and the external genitalia is determined by hormones produced by fetal gonads (ovaries or testes) and the cells' response to them.
If the fetus has testes, and if the testes produce testosterone, and if the cells of the genitals respond to the testosterone, the outer urogenital folds swell and fuse in the midline to produce the scrotum; the protuberance grows larger and straighter to form the penis; the inner urogenital swellings swell, wrap around the penis, and fuse in the midline to form the penile urethra.
If testosterone is not present, normal female development continues, with the development of a perineal urethra and the formation of a uterus, clitoris and vagina.
The Müllerian ducts, which are paired ducts of the embryo which empty into the cloaca, and which develop into the upper vagina, cervix, uterus and oviducts; in the male they disappear except for the vestigial vagina masculina and the appendix testis.
Although female development is usually considered the "default" configuration in the absence of induction, recent evidence has indicated that Wnt4 plays a role in the development of female anatomy.[1]"
Through this you can see that the sex organs have equivalencies in the opposite sex. Clitoris>Penis, Ovaries>Testicles, Labia>Scrotum. Because the essential blueprint for genital development is basically female, MtF surgery, reversing the effects of development, are easier than the FtM surgery which is to create development that never occurred. less
If it was medically possible, then i'd fully support it being available as an option for those who want it, i think it would be a great option for those who fit the profile, but i think you're looking for something that medical science has yet to perfect.
In any case, the penis definitely replaces the clitoris, and skin from the vagina is necessary for the procedure as well. At best, i doubt you'd end up with a full set of both genitals. It /might/ one day be medically possible to create a penis from other skin or somehow generated skin cells or something, while leaving the vagina intact and it might one day be possible to create a penis that allows erectile function and sensation, but you won't ever have a penis, vagina, testicles and a clitoris at the same time. Even in people born intersex this doesn't really happen.
This relates to fetal development of genitalia, explained on wikipedia thusly:
"A few weeks after fertilization, the initial appearance of the human fetal genitalia is basically feminine: a pair of "urogenital folds" with a small protuberance in the middle, and the urethra behind the protuberance.
In typical fetal development, the presence of the SRY gene causes the fetal gonads to become testes; the absence of it allows the gonads to continue to develop into ovaries. Thereafter, the development of the internal reproductive organs and the external genitalia is determined by hormones produced by fetal gonads (ovaries or testes) and the cells' response to them.
If the fetus has testes, and if the testes produce testosterone, and if the cells of the genitals respond to the testosterone, the outer urogenital folds swell and fuse in the midline to produce the scrotum; the protuberance grows larger and straighter to form the penis; the inner urogenital swellings swell, wrap around the penis, and fuse in the midline to form the penile urethra.
If testosterone is not present, normal female development continues, with the development of a perineal urethra and the formation of a uterus, clitoris and vagina.
The Müllerian ducts, which are paired ducts of the embryo which empty into the cloaca, and which develop into the upper vagina, cervix, uterus and oviducts; in the male they disappear except for the vestigial vagina masculina and the appendix testis.
Although female development is usually considered the "default" configuration in the absence of induction, recent evidence has indicated that Wnt4 plays a role in the development of female anatomy.[1]"
Through this you can see that the sex organs have equivalencies in the opposite sex. Clitoris>Penis, Ovaries>Testicles, Labia>Scrotum. Because the essential blueprint for genital development is basically female, MtF surgery, reversing the effects of development, are easier than the FtM surgery which is to create development that never occurred. less
11/12/2012
Quote:
please be very careful before you spread misinformation like this.
Originally posted by
charletnarouh
From my understanding, creating a penis has very limited success. Many trans men opt not to go through bottom surgery, or go through a limited surgery involving clitoral ligament release and urethral lengthening, also called a metoidioplasty,
...
more
From my understanding, creating a penis has very limited success. Many trans men opt not to go through bottom surgery, or go through a limited surgery involving clitoral ligament release and urethral lengthening, also called a metoidioplasty, resulting in an elongated clitoris and the ability to stand to urinate, though this also usually involves a complete hysterectomy and removal of the vagina, the tissues of which are used to create the urethral lengthening. It generally does not result in a functioning penis that can be used for penetration. Phallioplasty, implantation and grafts to create a penis, has a high rate of aesthetic satisfaction, a very low rate of sensation satisfaction, and a lower rate of functional satisfaction. I don't believe that penises created through phallioplasty are capable of achieving a natural erection from arousal. MtF genital reassignment surgery is much more advanced, unfortunately.
If it was medically possible, then i'd fully support it being available as an option for those who want it, i think it would be a great option for those who fit the profile, but i think you're looking for something that medical science has yet to perfect.
In any case, the penis definitely replaces the clitoris, and skin from the vagina is necessary for the procedure as well. At best, i doubt you'd end up with a full set of both genitals. It /might/ one day be medically possible to create a penis from other skin or somehow generated skin cells or something, while leaving the vagina intact and it might one day be possible to create a penis that allows erectile function and sensation, but you won't ever have a penis, vagina, testicles and a clitoris at the same time. Even in people born intersex this doesn't really happen.
This relates to fetal development of genitalia, explained on wikipedia thusly:
"A few weeks after fertilization, the initial appearance of the human fetal genitalia is basically feminine: a pair of "urogenital folds" with a small protuberance in the middle, and the urethra behind the protuberance.
In typical fetal development, the presence of the SRY gene causes the fetal gonads to become testes; the absence of it allows the gonads to continue to develop into ovaries. Thereafter, the development of the internal reproductive organs and the external genitalia is determined by hormones produced by fetal gonads (ovaries or testes) and the cells' response to them.
If the fetus has testes, and if the testes produce testosterone, and if the cells of the genitals respond to the testosterone, the outer urogenital folds swell and fuse in the midline to produce the scrotum; the protuberance grows larger and straighter to form the penis; the inner urogenital swellings swell, wrap around the penis, and fuse in the midline to form the penile urethra.
If testosterone is not present, normal female development continues, with the development of a perineal urethra and the formation of a uterus, clitoris and vagina.
The Müllerian ducts, which are paired ducts of the embryo which empty into the cloaca, and which develop into the upper vagina, cervix, uterus and oviducts; in the male they disappear except for the vestigial vagina masculina and the appendix testis.
Although female development is usually considered the "default" configuration in the absence of induction, recent evidence has indicated that Wnt4 plays a role in the development of female anatomy.[1]"
Through this you can see that the sex organs have equivalencies in the opposite sex. Clitoris>Penis, Ovaries>Testicles, Labia>Scrotum. Because the essential blueprint for genital development is basically female, MtF surgery, reversing the effects of development, are easier than the FtM surgery which is to create development that never occurred. less
If it was medically possible, then i'd fully support it being available as an option for those who want it, i think it would be a great option for those who fit the profile, but i think you're looking for something that medical science has yet to perfect.
In any case, the penis definitely replaces the clitoris, and skin from the vagina is necessary for the procedure as well. At best, i doubt you'd end up with a full set of both genitals. It /might/ one day be medically possible to create a penis from other skin or somehow generated skin cells or something, while leaving the vagina intact and it might one day be possible to create a penis that allows erectile function and sensation, but you won't ever have a penis, vagina, testicles and a clitoris at the same time. Even in people born intersex this doesn't really happen.
This relates to fetal development of genitalia, explained on wikipedia thusly:
"A few weeks after fertilization, the initial appearance of the human fetal genitalia is basically feminine: a pair of "urogenital folds" with a small protuberance in the middle, and the urethra behind the protuberance.
In typical fetal development, the presence of the SRY gene causes the fetal gonads to become testes; the absence of it allows the gonads to continue to develop into ovaries. Thereafter, the development of the internal reproductive organs and the external genitalia is determined by hormones produced by fetal gonads (ovaries or testes) and the cells' response to them.
If the fetus has testes, and if the testes produce testosterone, and if the cells of the genitals respond to the testosterone, the outer urogenital folds swell and fuse in the midline to produce the scrotum; the protuberance grows larger and straighter to form the penis; the inner urogenital swellings swell, wrap around the penis, and fuse in the midline to form the penile urethra.
If testosterone is not present, normal female development continues, with the development of a perineal urethra and the formation of a uterus, clitoris and vagina.
The Müllerian ducts, which are paired ducts of the embryo which empty into the cloaca, and which develop into the upper vagina, cervix, uterus and oviducts; in the male they disappear except for the vestigial vagina masculina and the appendix testis.
Although female development is usually considered the "default" configuration in the absence of induction, recent evidence has indicated that Wnt4 plays a role in the development of female anatomy.[1]"
Through this you can see that the sex organs have equivalencies in the opposite sex. Clitoris>Penis, Ovaries>Testicles, Labia>Scrotum. Because the essential blueprint for genital development is basically female, MtF surgery, reversing the effects of development, are easier than the FtM surgery which is to create development that never occurred. less
many trans men are incredibly satisfied with their post-op penises, and it's dangerous to perpetuate the outdated notion that all ftm lower surgeries are unsatisfactory.
11/12/2012
Quote:
Fair enough. The info I provided was based on my research and percentage rates provided by medical professionals and medical study info, but I have no actual experience to base it on.
Originally posted by
hanjonatan
please be very careful before you spread misinformation like this.
many trans men are incredibly satisfied with their post-op penises, and it's dangerous to perpetuate the outdated notion that all ftm lower surgeries are unsatisfactory.
many trans men are incredibly satisfied with their post-op penises, and it's dangerous to perpetuate the outdated notion that all ftm lower surgeries are unsatisfactory.
11/12/2012
I think people should be able to do whatever they want to their bodies.
11/12/2012
Quote:
I have seen several shows on this subject. First and fore most there are a few Doctors in the states that will do the surgery after hormone therapy and at least one year of transgender counseling. The best work done is in Vietnam and China (Bangkok). They do facial augments as well as implants (breasts). There are few gay porn stars that started out as men and got breast implants as well as facial reconstructive surgery making them look like "chicks with dicks". They look just like women until the pants come off. Look at RuPaul. He pulls off both quite well. As for having both a penis and a vagina I don't know if they can do that. Charlenarouh is right, Doctors use the penis to make a vagina or vagina to make a penis. I haven't seen anything where a person was able to have both.
Originally posted by
AndroAngel
So, here's an interesting question for you all. I identify and live as both/neither gender. I generally view myself as being both or either, and the more I experience, the more I wish I had both sets of genitalia to match my identity. Do you
...
more
So, here's an interesting question for you all. I identify and live as both/neither gender. I generally view myself as being both or either, and the more I experience, the more I wish I had both sets of genitalia to match my identity. Do you support inter-gender people being able to modify their genitals to match their self-image? Would it even be possible to do? And if it's possible, would I ever be able to find a doctor who would do it?
less
11/12/2012
Hm, I was reading about new stem-cell research that may enable them to replace a penis lost in an accident or to cancer, which is where this question initially came from. In a way, I was hoping there was already a way to utilize the clit without ruining the vagina, but I guess it's true, we're still years from any major breakthroughs in the field that would allow such a thing to be done. Hopefully that technology will become available in my lifetime.
12/13/2012
I personally support people doing whatever they like to their own gosh darned bodies. It's your right as a human being, I think. As another genderqueer (I generally say androgynous) individual though, the problem for me is that aside from having a blank, featureless, barbie doll lower bottom there is no real good example of "neither penis nor vagina genetalia" and it's a little tricky asking to be surgically given something that doesn't really have a tangible form.
Even though theoretically it was ease a lot of my dysmorphia, in MY case specifically, it seems impractical, expensive, and possibly not resulting in something to my liking.
Even though theoretically it was ease a lot of my dysmorphia, in MY case specifically, it seems impractical, expensive, and possibly not resulting in something to my liking.
12/13/2012
Quote:
Do you have dysphoria? If you don't you should not transition.
Originally posted by
AndroAngel
So, here's an interesting question for you all. I identify and live as both/neither gender. I generally view myself as being both or either, and the more I experience, the more I wish I had both sets of genitalia to match my identity. Do you
...
more
So, here's an interesting question for you all. I identify and live as both/neither gender. I generally view myself as being both or either, and the more I experience, the more I wish I had both sets of genitalia to match my identity. Do you support inter-gender people being able to modify their genitals to match their self-image? Would it even be possible to do? And if it's possible, would I ever be able to find a doctor who would do it?
less
If you do, I'd suggest you work with a gender therapist. It's not possible to make both sets of genitalia so you could work with the therapist to find your best option.
12/13/2012
Total posts: 11
Unique posters: 9