No, because instead of discussing the issue at hand, your arguments rely on claims on education or "I have gay friends of both sexes" as if any anecdotal experiences somehow justify any of the obtuse comments you make, in this or in several dozens of other threads.

My posts and those by Sir address specifics. Your response has to be on the defensive, even going so far as to start a poll whining about how the fun in the forums is gone. You've explicitly marginalized gays, lesbians, the transgendered, and feminists; you've dug yourself into a hole and your followup posts make that hole deeper. less

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that dv8 posted the image to show that there are trans- people in existence, in your face, around you, everywhere. Claiming ignorance because you "haven't met" someone with that attribute is honestly just poor discussion skills. I haven't met anyone with klinefelter's syndrome, but I still know what it is and how to respect it (just as an example).

I am astounded that with being a well-educated and supposedly well-read individual, Bignuf, that you lack the education of trans- and intersex individuals (which, though I mention them in the same sentence, are completely different).

dv8 mentioned something important, and that is that you are relating being trans- to being gay or lesbian, when gender identity and romantic/sexual orientation have nothing to do with each other. Gender identity is how a person relates to the world around them and within themselves as they understand their gender to be. Romantic or sexual orientation is what a person is attracted to romantically or sexually in their relationships.

I still would like to repeat the idea I mentioned earlier, and that is to stop pitying people who are different or variant. We're sick of it. We're tired and annoyed that people pat us on the back for simply being gay, lesbian, trans-, DIFFERENT. Honestly, we just want to be left alone. I'm glad that you feel inspired, but kindly shove it, maybe anally if that's what you prefer. We're not here to inspire you, we're here for the same reason that you are - to live.

I'm not going to attack you personally, Bignuf, because I do not see a point or purpose. I am simply giving you information that is true. You can disagree with me and dv8 all you want, but that does not change the truth of what we say. Getting defensive over it does not change what is real. less

I also posted the link to the pictures to show that trans people are of all sorts, kinkster and vanilla, flamboyant and shy, queens and bois, and even people who blend right in. Furthermore, many of the parade signs echo the issues and challenges that trans people face; although that topic was mentioned in the original post, Bignuf's reaction to a social display of trans pride reveal her true character. Her posts reflect an "us vs. them" mentality, treating people outside her norm as "other". less

Sir, I honestly feel like I am living in a Twilight Zone episode. I am speaking one language and all those around me are hearing something else. Where did I say that I never heard of these different sexual orientations? I never met anyone, but I have a great understanding of the reality of it's existence. I have never seen a patient with Ebola Virus, but I have no disbelief that it is very, very real. What my original post said was that I "never gave the issue much thought". I didn't. I was being honest. I simply had no interest or involvement with the subject at hand. This news clip changed that. It made me really feel something, empathetic human to human, for what these kids were going through and how amazing the way that they overcame obstacles was. Who the hell is "pitying" those who are "different"? Not me. I respect those who overcome obstacles, and achieve all they can in life, and we ALL overcome some at one time or another. Realizing that someone blind has it tougher then a sighted person, to get through law school is not pity, it's accepting reality. To respect that person is likewise not pity, but a genuine human response to an "above the average" effort rewarded in success.
In case you worry about me "patting you on the back" for simply being gay or lesbian or whatever, again, that is SO not true. I will pat you on the back if you get an "A" in school, kick ass in a Karate tournament or get that promotion you worked hard for. I will fight like hell to make sure you do NOT get discriminated against, however, because you are gay, or lesbian or whatever, when you are in school, or when you are being considered for the promotion.
As for that posting of the photos....I darn well know there are bunches of Trans people out there. However, look at some of those photos that happened to be in the San Francisco "Gay Pride" parade. There are almost nude individuals, marching down the street simulating sex acts. Is this appropriate for a public parade? Does it really enrich, enhance anyone. I am sure some are very entertained by it all (there are a LOT of smiles being seen), just as I am sure there are a million people mortified that this is being put on as a public display. I will say again, it was those images that I happened to find "less then appropriate" in public (and believe me, half naked, simulating sex hetero couples would elicit that same response from me), but my gay friends felt the exact same way, and were, sadly, embarrassed by it. Believe it or not, those "events" do not reflect all gay people's feelings on the issue, and again, I will fight in the ramparts to allow these other voices to he heard and acknowledged as valid. It is why I am PROUD to participate in the wedding of these two men who have some very high moral standards, live a life that even the most puritanical person would have to at least admit was more "normal" then many of their "heteo" friends, family and neighbors. I think they have done more to create a societal acceptance of gay people, with all the people who know them, then any parade, which, I bet, creates more animosity then support. Please understand, these are not "stick in the mud" boring guys, but they also don't feel that anyone's personal matters should be put on public display. Again, just another opinion. less

Dv8, perhaps I am just not as good a writer as you. Perhaps I was not gifted with the ability pass my thoughts on clearly, because obviously your response to my post shows I failed to in any way make myself clear. If you think I have marginalized gays, lesbians and the transgendered, then you fail to know who I am in any way. It is the exact opposite. I believe no one should be "marginalized". I believe we all deserve equal respect and I live that every day. The issue about the "feminists" has nothing to do with my lack of respect for equal opportunity for woman or full access to all the rights enjoyed by men, since, again, my own life and the daughter I raised proves that. However, the "radical anti male" feminists who were the only ones "owning" that title at the urban school where I went to college, were in no way role models or exposing a philosophy I had any interest in. Am I not entitled to my opinion on this?
When someone offers a different viewpoint, and is met with personal attacks, that means the truly radical mindset of "my way or the highway" prevails. Look at the societies and government that burned books and exiled professors. Those are the same mindsets I run into when I hear people on the far right or the far left seek to shut down any other voices.
This post was, again, not intended in any way to be controversial and if it was, it is only because of my poor wording. I really don't have the energy to embroil myself in a fight I have no desire to be involved with. Sorry. less

Part of the problem is you're not good as a reader either. The friction isn't some trivial difference of opinion but reactions to ignorant things you've written. People can read your posts so stop trying to turn yourself into a victim.

Yes, the post was meant but to be a discussion about a TV news clip but the original followups constructively pointed out what was wrong with the post. Your defensive reactions to those followups revealed prejudice and a failure to examine critically your own posts and values.

The only thing evoking the Twilight Zone here is a person who's so self-deluded that she's oblivious to her own words and needs to portray a false sense of worth in order to support her arguments. less

I can't even read all of this. I was born with lady bits, as a young kid i identified as a male. Then I went into the sex industry, identified as a female. Then in the past four years i've discovered that I really don't identify myself as anything. I'm just me. I love my strap-on. i love packing, I adore pegging. I've been married for 20 years.

I don't brag about it, I don't go to work and say.. hey guys i'm genderfluid or anything. To say you've never met one, then make a post that sounds like you have some sort of authority is crazy in my mind. As many have showed you, this is a broad subject and can't be put into a little box.

I think it would have been much better if a person who actually deals with these issues started a poll. To me... you're just to ignorant in this area. It's not an insult. not at all.

I just think that you should educate yourself more than a tv show.

That's my two cents less

Does this mean that you don't know any actual transgendered people?

Being hetero has nothing to do with gender. Gender and sexuality are two different things. Regardless of your gender choice, you can favor men, women, butch, femme, other, and none.

Also, the poll implies that people are transgender or cisgender. Gender isn't binary and includes people who identify as genderqueer or genderfluid, not specifically cis/trans. less

Thank you for your honest, heartfelt post. You captured exactly my point, which I failed to make clearly (my fault). I was not ignorant to anyone Transgender, I just had no interest in the topic, till I saw this show. My post was more to ask if anyone had the same experience I did. It DID make me more interested and did make me want to understand more about the topic and the people who deal with it. My statement about "not knowing anyone" was NOT to make it seem like "thus no one deals with it". I was responding to another persons statement, making ME sound like an idiot, because he or she said "What, you don't know anyone who is Transgender" and my honest response was "no I don't". Sometimes when someone is involved with a group...any group, we get so immersed we think everyone else knows about the issues that group deals with. In the case of Transgender I don't think that is true. I really believe it is still a big mystery to most people. That is why that bit on the news was so good. It was illuminating in a very vanilla way that even the most closed minded person could say..."well, maybe that isn't so strange". Also, the fact no one identified themselves as Trans doesn't mean they are not. Again, I personally (my opinion, which I believe I am entitled to), believe everyone can live their lives and isn't anyone's business about their private lives, unless they care to share. With gay couples, it becomes obvious when they bring a partner to the company picnic of the same gender (or outwardly so), but with a Trans person, no one may ever know they are. That is FINE. It is their life and I respect that, and again, fully support whatever it takes to make sure everyone, of every "type" (not sure the word to use here without, again, insulting anyone), is treated equally, fairly and as the person they are. Good PEOPLE are good people. Assholes are Assholes and I don't think their "bits" or "gender identity" changes that. I care to have GOOD PEOPLE as my friends and that is the life I lead. Period. less

I was wrong in my earlier post. The other two contributors aren't trans sexual. Sorry... I really am. My poor brain can't keep everyone straight in my mind.

However, you speak with the knowledge and wisdom of a trans sexual. Which speaks volumes to your dedication to education and awareness of sexual issues. It's obvious that you take gaining knowledge and being sex positive is a true passion in your lives.

Bingnuf. Honestly, you should learn from these wonderful people and strive to gain knowledge yourself. Education is the only way that mindsets and preconceptions can be changed.

In all Bingnuf, to be a valued voice you must be sex positive and be educated about the things you speak about. I hope you gain that... less

HUGS all will be well.. i think this is a hot topic and the opionos are varried.

Learning is the key. Unfortunately, shows like this only raise the question to the lime light and do very little to educate. I have no idea the challenges that others face, because i've only faced my small challenges. I hear others talk, see tweets, and read posts.. but i don't throw in my opinion because i'm' not educated enough in it.

It's a subject with so many layers, varied opinions. ect.. whew... i think whole course could only be a survey of the issue. less

This first post was the one that created the entire friction. Notice YOUR first line? It implies that there are so many transgendered people around or that they are so "openly" around that I should, "of course" know a bunch. A. I don't think it's so common that they are "all over", but who knows? B. If they are around, they don't wear it on their sleeves, since perhaps blending into society is a far better way for them to avoid friction in life? I may know twenty, but I don't know it, and they don't say it. C. The fact that I don't know it, or even if I did know it, would not change my respect or lack of it for that individual. It would be based on who they are, as a person, a friend or as a fellow worker. D. Why is my answering "NO, I don't know any", which was an honest answer, somehow cause for being attacked? Sorry, as was said on this forum, facts are facts and the FACT I don't know anyone is simply a numeric fact. There are millions upon millions of North Koreans and I don't know any of them either. It doesn't mean they don't exist or I deny their existence. I just don't know any. That is all I said. less

No, the rhetorical question was a device that pointed out that you didn't know what you were talking about. Read the rest of that post and read Sir's posts.

And stop all the bombastic repetition about being sex-positive and being attacked and being innocent and being whatever. You like turning your arguments all about yourself although you've come out against pride parades and feminists.

My original reply and Sir's original reply were both concise and direct. The friction started when you started displaying poor critical reading, started using fallacious reasoning in your arguments, and started marginalizing people, then turned discussion into some egotistical defensive rant. I'm not about to repeat all the posts and have to explain everything to you line by line. less

Honestly, for someone who claims to be sex positive you really are in the dark. You should say... I"m sex positive as long as I agree with it. You obviously have no interest in educating yourself or else you would and stop this back paddling you're doing.

Ignorance is fine, but once you're educated, you can't claim ignorance.

#1 why did you tackle a subject that you obviously don't care enough about to even read about or listen to others when they share? What a few kids on TV made you come post something to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. You are a fool lady. Honestly. You should educate yourself or shut up on this subject.

#2 do you think you're some sort of leader in the community? I would hope that the community here has more a true sex positive voice leading it. I've read some of your other posts. Lets be real here. You are not a sex educator, you're arrogant and you just don't know crap outside of your little circle of interest and even then most of what you post is just crap.

#3 Get off your high horse and take some advice. Shut up and stop trying to act like you know this stuff. You have issues lady. Take them somewhere else and stop confusing people with your made up education. less

I'll say this up front. I don't pretend to know the aspects of any lifestyle but my own, and will admit when I don't. I'm eager to learn about what makes anyone tick. I don't know a lot about the topic this thread is based on.

I don't feel that certain topics or areas are off limits to people here. I've always felt free to ask questions and say when I'm unaware of how things work. When I've had transgendered students in the Mentor Program, I've asked lots of questions, to understand how things work personally for them.

If I may, your excessive use of quotation marks around things that don't require them doesn't exactly scream respect. less

I am really, really tired of you. I never had a single person here that caused me angst. Congratulations. You are it. I can be very sex positive, without supporting the "kinksters" as someone else here put it, flaunting it in a parade in public. I don't think it is appropriate for anyone of any gender to be forcing that into peoples faces. I have zero issue, and again, support total equal rights for anyone..anyone..in employment, marriage, and life in general. Everyone deserves equality of opportunity and equal expectations of acceptance and respect. Sorry if you don't understand that someone who doesn't accept that parading in a diaper in a supposed show of "unity" is somehow marginalizing anyone. I suspect more people feel that way then those who find such behavior uplifting.
As for feminists, I again, tried to explain clearly that I support total equality and opportunity for woman in all things. As a professional woman who was in a male dominated field for decades, I think I have set an example, and raised a daughter who likewise succeeded in her career, with far less obstruction, thankfully, due to her gender. Having said that, I AM, in the technical definition of equal rights, a "feminist". What I tried to explain, but cannot seem to get past your hate blinders, is that when I was in college...a long, long time ago, the people who had "hijacked" that term, and were teaching those courses, were patently and openly anti-male radicals and in their openly spoken opinions, men had "no real value" and it was their "oppression of woman responsible for all the ills in the world". I understood and supported the desire for equal pay, opportunity, etc. I didn't support the radical aspects of what they were saying and I still don't. Sorry if someone having an opinion other then yours is bothering to your limited mindset, but I am done with this conversation, this thread and indeed, with you. Have a good life. less

So you only respect those who have worked to earn your respect? I feel like people should act and behave because of who they are and their character, regardless of how those around them are acting toward them.

Thank you for responding, but I feel like you've missed a bit of my point. This is a sensitive topic, and it wasn't exactly approached correctly. I know this whole thing is very emotional right now. It can certainly be construed as disrespectful to be so flippant about the lifestyle of others by lumping gender identity and sexual orientation together. After this ignorance (which isn't a crime; we're all ignorant of things we don't yet know) was pointed out, it might have been best to inquire respectfully if you wanted more information, rather than focus on defending the initial poll.

I'm not directly involved, obviously, and it's none of my beeswax. Just my two cents. less

the arguing in the comments section with subjects like this always annoys me. people can't even say something NICE about trans people without one of them interrogating and "educating" a person who's unfamiliar with the whole thing and that only results in turning them off to the subject
most of us are not like that! less