The New Intimacy

#EdenU - #SexIs - My Inner Bitch’s Bout with Sex Negative Education

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Contributor: Ansley Ansley


My Inner Bitch's Bout with Sex Negative Education, by Tinamarie Bernard! - Click here to read about Tinamarie's experience with "sex negativity" at her son's camp.



There is a lot of guesswork that goes into how a parent should raise their children and how much information should be fed into their sponge-like brains. In a large number of discussions, the answer almost always defaults to "it depends on the child. While this is by and large obviously true, we have nevertheless set forth a set of standards and milestones that are deemed age-appropriate for the various stages of life.

Can't drive until you're fifteen, can't join the military until you're 17 and a half, can't drink until you're 21. It's also 18 or 21, depending on your location, to purchase adult items and go to R-rated movies without an adult.

The one area where parents seem to become the most nervous is when and how to start discussing the ideas of sex and biology with their children. Tinamarie states that her eight year old son is well past the biology part and they were discussing actual relationships by this point.

I can't speak for anyone else's family, but in mine this would have created an outrage of Biblical proportions and my mother would have been ridden out on rails the second my grandparents found out.

Which brings us to the topic of the week! We would like to know your thoughts on when it is appropriate to begin sex education. Do you think it is the responsibility of parents and teachers to educate; maybe just one or the other?
Answers (public voting - your screen name will appear in the results):
Do you have children?
Airen Wolf , js250 , P'Gell , padmeamidala
4
Yes and I am female.
Airen Wolf , Beck , travelnurse , goodeatz , unfulfilled , js250 , Scrawberry78 , P'Gell , - Kira - , padmeamidala , Deeder , Risque , Kitka
13
Yes and I am male.
Kindred , Gunsmoke , Pi
3
No and I am female.
Ryuson , theothers1 , jennifur77 , amazon , deltalima , potstickers , null , edeneve , pfoof , MrsHouseWife , Do emu , icyqueen , darthkitt3n , Liz2 , JennSenn , Petite Valentine , Lari , Rawr4483 , limecoconut , Mari , ShadowedSeductress , amplified to rock , CoffeeButton , Mwar , engineeredgoddess , glasskitten , bayosgirl , Callosciurus , Tianna Silver , Sexii Mermaid , Sohotdinosaur , Alyxx , Zakkie , Terri69 , chickyto82 , NarcissisticLust
36
No and I am male.
Omegaice
1
.
joolie
1
Do you think it was appropriate for Tinamarie's son to say where babies come from?
chickyto82
1
No, that is the parents' and teachers' responsibility.
Sexii Mermaid
1
Yes, it's not like he went into detail or anything.
Ryuson , Airen Wolf , theothers1 , Beck , travelnurse , jennifur77 , goodeatz , amazon , potstickers , null , ilikepies2 , MrsHouseWife , Do emu , icyqueen , unfulfilled , darthkitt3n , Pi , Liz2 , js250 , JennSenn , Scrawberry78 , Petite Valentine , J5ive , Lari , Rawr4483 , limecoconut , Mari , P'Gell , amplified to rock , CoffeeButton , engineeredgoddess , - Kira - , glasskitten , bayosgirl , Callosciurus , padmeamidala , Tianna Silver , Deeder , joolie , Omegaice , Sohotdinosaur , Risque , Alyxx , Terri69 , chickyto82 , NarcissisticLust , Kitka
47
Not sure...
Kindred , deltalima , Zakkie
3
..
Did the camp director overreact?
chickyto82
1
Yes, definitely.
Ryuson , Kindred , Airen Wolf , theothers1 , damnbul12 , Beck , jennifur77 , goodeatz , amazon , potstickers , null , ilikepies2 , MrsHouseWife , Do emu , icyqueen , unfulfilled , darthkitt3n , Pi , Liz2 , js250 , JennSenn , Scrawberry78 , Petite Valentine , Lari , Rawr4483 , limecoconut , Mari , P'Gell , ShadowedSeductress , amplified to rock , CoffeeButton , engineeredgoddess , - Kira - , glasskitten , bayosgirl , Callosciurus , padmeamidala , Tianna Silver , Deeder , Omegaice , Sohotdinosaur , Risque , Alyxx , Zakkie , Terri69 , chickyto82 , Kitka
47
No, not at all.
I have no opinion or am undecided.
Gunsmoke , Sexii Mermaid , joolie
3
...
NarcissisticLust
1
Do parents have the right to expect their children be shielded from reality when in public?
chickyto82
1
Yes, absolutely!
No, that's impossible.
Beck , jennifur77 , goodeatz , deltalima , potstickers , null , MrsHouseWife , Do emu , icyqueen , unfulfilled , darthkitt3n , Pi , Liz2 , js250 , JennSenn , Scrawberry78 , Petite Valentine , Lari , Rawr4483 , limecoconut , Mari , P'Gell , ShadowedSeductress , CoffeeButton , engineeredgoddess , - Kira - , bayosgirl , Callosciurus , padmeamidala , Tianna Silver , joolie , Omegaice , Sohotdinosaur , Alyxx , Terri69 , chickyto82 , Kitka
37
To a degree...and I'll explain in my comment.
Ryuson , Kindred , Airen Wolf , theothers1 , travelnurse , amazon , Gunsmoke , amplified to rock , glasskitten , Sexii Mermaid , Deeder , Zakkie , NarcissisticLust
13
Total votes: 213 (57 voters)
Poll is closed
09/13/2012
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Contributor: Ryuson Ryuson
(Review Program Mentor)
I feel like if it's common knowledge, like that babies come from mums and dads when they love eachother, and that babies grow inside of ladies abdomens, then it's ridiculous to try to shield them from that.

Kids from a VERY young age know that there are two, fairly binary sexes. When they see that something is different ("Why am I shorter than you?" "Why is my tooth brush smaller?" "Why do I have different color hair?") they want an explanation. The reason that men are different than women is because they need one of each to make a baby.

You can't hide that there are different sexes, and you can't claim that people get really fat before the stork brings them a kid.

I DO feel like people shouldn't say things like "Santa doesn't exist," "You have sex by putting a penis into a vagina," or other such things. If it's breaking an illusion that is important to that child (which believing that God magically makes babies is not) or is explicitly graphic, I feel that there is a bit of ground to want your child to be shielded.
09/13/2012
Contributor: Kindred Kindred
I think the manner in which the counselor handled the situation was wrong, but I'm not convinced that his concerns were wrong. As the camp counselor, he has responsibilities to all of the children. It's great that the author's child was so knowledgeable, but not all children at the camp are likely at that same level. We don't know the complete story so it's hard to judge one way or the other. Was the child wrong for saying so? I think it's pretty hard to fault an 8 year old. He likely doesn't realize that other children have not been exposed to the same information. But that is potentially where the mother comes in. I think it's great that she teaches her son and I hope to have a similar relationship with my children, but I also believe that part of that education should be that not everyone, children and adults, want to hear a child talking about sex and sexuality. We have to respect others if they do not believe that their child is ready for such topics.
09/13/2012
Contributor: Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
(EF Review Program Mentor)
Quote:
Originally posted by Ansley


My Inner Bitch's Bout with Sex Negative Education, by Tinamarie Bernard! - Click here to read about Tinamarie's experience with "sex negativity" at her son's camp.



There is a lot of guesswork that goes ... more
I believe that sexually explicit full frontal images of aroused adults should be shielded from children and the acts adults perform when having sex should be left for the children to learn about or "invent" as they become adults. Other than that honest answers to questions and real education is a must, be it at home or in public. So long as the information is factual then I'm all for it!
09/13/2012
Contributor: Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
(EF Review Program Mentor)
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
I think the manner in which the counselor handled the situation was wrong, but I'm not convinced that his concerns were wrong. As the camp counselor, he has responsibilities to all of the children. It's great that the author's child was ... more
This is exactly how I raised my girls and it has served them well when their friends with less ummmm contientious parents have passed on their schoolyard education about sex. My girls were able to gently correct their friends and always ended with,"If you are wanting more information ask your parents!"
Every parent who's child came home to ask them thanked my girls and when they told the parents that I insist that they tell their friends to ask their parents I also get a surprised thank you.
It is every child's parent's responsibility to raise their children as their conscience demands...this is why I never tell children to disobey their parent's wishes even if I feel the restriction is unnecessary or even wrong. I would scalp the person who advocated that my children deviate from my wishes!
09/13/2012
Contributor: theothers1 theothers1
I don't have children so I don't profess to know the right way to do things. That being said, I think it's important for parents to give their children developmentally appropriate information on sex so that they can be mature at whatever age they encounter it. We are such a sexually progressive/behind (yes both in a lot of ways) that kids will be exposed to sex. Parents should properly educate so their children know why things are appropriate or inappropriate. As they get older, equipping them with information so they are safe is important as well.

Children's questions should be answered honestly, but if a young child asks me a potentially sexually charged question, I'd direct it to them to discuss it with their parent. As a nurse, I educate where I can, but make that the parent's responsibility.

Gosh, I hope that makes sense.
09/13/2012
Contributor: Ryuson Ryuson
(Review Program Mentor)
Quote:
Originally posted by Airen Wolf
This is exactly how I raised my girls and it has served them well when their friends with less ummmm contientious parents have passed on their schoolyard education about sex. My girls were able to gently correct their friends and always ended ... more
That's really great that your kid responds like that, I can only hope that my children will be that conscientious. Do you think that the kid in the story should have said "That's not where babies come from, ask your parents!" or do you think that the kid was right in trying to educate his peer?
09/13/2012
Contributor: amazon amazon
I think it's a huge overreaction. Sure, it's parents' responsibility, but the reality is... well, that's reality when you walk out the door.
09/13/2012
Contributor: ilikepies2 ilikepies2
Sounds like a healthy reaction to me!
09/13/2012
Contributor: MrsHouseWife MrsHouseWife
I was raised in an open and informative environment, while I believe it lead me to have sex early that I now think is a good idea, I did so in a stable and loving relationship and will only continue to engage in sex this way, because of the information my parents gave me.
It’s very important to talk to children early and often (as the article mentions) about sex, sexual health and relationships as I believe society and social media are introducing them to the basics of it very quickly. I can't imagine how hard it is to raise children in general let alone adding the pressure and worry of other peoples reaction to how you raise them. The camp director has overreacted and the mother was well within her rights and responsibilities as a parent.
I completely agree with her comment "My children are educated. I won’t apologize for that. Nor will I make my son feel bad for knowing what he knows, nor ask him to act dumb when he knows better.”
Well done and good on her!
09/14/2012
Contributor: namelesschaos namelesschaos
Off topic but this is one of my pet peeves:

"It's also 18 or 21, depending on your location, to purchase adult items and go to R-rated movies without an adult."

Those thing don't go together adult movies, as in porn, as legally considered obscene for minors are legally regulated. R-rated movies are entirely voluntarily regulated and can't be legally enforced (it would be unconstitutional for multiple reasons). Also the MPAA says no one under 17 with out parent or guardian, your mixing up regulation for porn and regulation for R-rated movies, although again as it not legally binding the theater can make up its own rules.

Putting a private industry's self-regulation along side the other examples ,in the same sentence no less, which are government regulated perpetuates the myth that the MPAA ratings are legal enforceable and all the myth about the constitution that goes along with them.
09/14/2012
Contributor: unfulfilled unfulfilled
My boys are really young so we haven't had to talk about sex yet, but they know I have different parts than they and their dad have. Kids are really observant even at a young age. I hope to have an open relationship with my kids as they progress through life. As far as this situation, the kid didn't know any better because he knew he was right and the other kids were wrong so he told them the truth. He didn't know he was doing anything wrong.

I never had a sex talk with my parents and what I learned about sex was from my friends and eventually having sex itself. I'm glad my friends knew what they were talkiing about when we were talking about it because if I was misinformed then that wouldn't be good. Sometimes, peers are going to be the only source of information from certain kids or health class.
09/14/2012
Contributor: Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by namelesschaos
Off topic but this is one of my pet peeves:

"It's also 18 or 21, depending on your location, to purchase adult items and go to R-rated movies without an adult."

Those thing don't go together adult movies, as in porn, ... more
Um, where exactly did I say "porn" or "adult movies"? I said adult items. This includes lottery tickets, lighters, adult magazines, cigarettes...
09/14/2012
Contributor: namelesschaos namelesschaos
Quote:
Originally posted by Ansley
Um, where exactly did I say "porn" or "adult movies"? I said adult items. This includes lottery tickets, lighters, adult magazines, cigarettes...
Irony:
"Um, where exactly did I say "porn" or "adult movies"? I said adult items"

Right here:
"includes lottery tickets, lighters, adult magazines, cigarette"

The only type of "adult magazine" that can restrictions can be legally enforceable is "porn". You say I misunderstood you however right you you make it clear you did in fact intend porn to be included under this list.
That you intended it to included more doesn't change anything about my point. Actually it only strength my objection to it.

First off my points point still stands regarding lotto ticket etc.:
1) Those are also legally enforced not volunteer system. Your still mixing legally enforceable laws with private self-regulation.
2) The age range is still not applicable. It is 17 for an an R-rated movie assuming the theater doesn't have it own policy. Your still lumping it with the 18-21 range. You may not like me calling the sentence poorly word in another thread but this alone is reason enough, it not factually accurate.

Adding to that they even less comparable. Lottery ticket etc. are not forms of protected speech. "Adult magazines" are forums of protect speech considered obscene for minors. R-rated movies are forums of protected speech not considered obscene for minors. These differences matter.

My fundamentally problems is that all of these difference become obscured when you discussing all with in a single sentence, leading to myths and misconceptions. The root of my pet peeve is people lumping these thing together ,as you have both in the original post and in this response, the how and why are very different and too few people are aware of them.
09/14/2012
Contributor: Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by namelesschaos
Irony:
"Um, where exactly did I say "porn" or "adult movies"? I said adult items"

Right here:
"includes lottery tickets, lighters, adult magazines, cigarette"

The only type of "adult ... more
That's wonderful that you feel so strongly and maybe you should look into launching a website or something to dispel the rumors.
09/14/2012
Contributor: namelesschaos namelesschaos
Quote:
Originally posted by Ansley
That's wonderful that you feel so strongly and maybe you should look into launching a website or something to dispel the rumors.
My mother would agree with you she keeps saying I should've been a lawyer instead of my current carrier path. Maybe she was right Anyway
09/14/2012
Contributor: Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
I think the manner in which the counselor handled the situation was wrong, but I'm not convinced that his concerns were wrong. As the camp counselor, he has responsibilities to all of the children. It's great that the author's child was ... more
This is the feeling I was left with as well. I felt it was wonderful the child was educated, but I felt like the one discussion they neglected to have is "when and where" these things are discussed.

I'm not entirely sure that "only with mommy, daddy, and doctors" is the right way to go but there has to be a line drawn somewhere.
09/14/2012
Contributor: Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by unfulfilled
My boys are really young so we haven't had to talk about sex yet, but they know I have different parts than they and their dad have. Kids are really observant even at a young age. I hope to have an open relationship with my kids as they ... more
The story is vague, but I don't think the children were friends so much as just happened to be in the same room together. And what exactly was it in the boy's statement that prompted the child to respond that way in the first place?

Men, women, and couples pray to get pregnant every day. In every religion and culture there is some tincture, god, or ritual that professes to grant the couple with child. What was it that initiated that reaction?

Now I'm wondering if there is a prejudice against religious beliefs in the child's life?
09/14/2012
Contributor: JennSenn JennSenn
I don't think it was bad for the kid to say what he did. He didn't go into detail or anything. I find it hard to believe how badly sex education is often handled. I just don't like dealing with it because it really is the parents decision and I can't say it isn't. If that's how they want to raise their kid what right do I have to judge them?
09/14/2012
Contributor: dv8 dv8
Quote:
Originally posted by Ansley
The story is vague, but I don't think the children were friends so much as just happened to be in the same room together. And what exactly was it in the boy's statement that prompted the child to respond that way in the first ... more
For that matter, a couple specifically could have fertility issues which might inspire some prayer.
09/14/2012
Contributor: Lari Lari
Quote:
Originally posted by Ansley


My Inner Bitch's Bout with Sex Negative Education, by Tinamarie Bernard! - Click here to read about Tinamarie's experience with "sex negativity" at her son's camp.



There is a lot of guesswork that goes ... more
OK. First of, I was like 13 when I first had my sex education class (well, at least I think I was 13) and it was a crazy moment... like when you are studying the human body in class and boys laughs about the girls body and vice versa. For me it was kind of weird... the only thing that I've heard prior to this age was a "lady's period" (like my mom liked to say it), where do baby's come from, and... hell, why my body at the age of 11 was far more developed than my girl-friends. Well, long story short, I've learned far more from that class than actually speaking about it with my parents. And being dad's little girl didn't help me when I returned from that class with a 3-pack condom package (yeah, that's the part he got bummed about) and like, 3 books explaining stuff. I'm just saying that it's important for both parties to teach - but the decision has to come from the parents (and if doesn't and the "child" is curious enough to ask a teacher or something... I say GO FOR IT), the world will be far greater than it is now. People need to educate whether the age is 6, 10, 11 or 13.
09/14/2012
Contributor: Mari Mari
Ugh, yeah, this is crazy. I have the opinion that all kids should spend some time on a farm or something; my parents had some guinea pigs and they had babies. As a result, I never asked them where babies came from; I just knew from the guinea pigs. I don't actually remember seeing the guinea pigs DOING anything (I was, like, 4 at the time), but I remember Fauna getting fat and the adorable little babies. I've even asked my parents if I ever wondered where babies came from or asked them, and apparently I never did, since I knew from the guineas.

Basically... if your kid doesn't know where babies come from by the time s/he is, like, 8 or 9, then they ought to go to a farm and see some babies being made. It really makes growing up easier, knowing that sort of thing. And you don't even have to ask your parents any weird questions!
09/15/2012
Contributor: P'Gell P'Gell
The prevailing idea in this country; that we have to cater to those with the most conservative and restrictive attitudes irritates me to no end.

Liberal people get "offended" too. Yet, when open, honest, liberal people complain because we want open, honest dialogue, the now hated word "politically correct" gets hauled out and dragged through the mud, and we are basically told to shut up, because "other people" want to live their lives with blinders on. And we shouldn't be allowed to say anything to get around those blinders, even if we're medically, socially and physiologically correct.


"Liberal Media" my ass. The country (and the neighborhood) is controlled by and leans towards those who feel the most "offense" towards the Truth, be that Sex, Drugs, Rock and Roll or social issues.

WHY do the most conservative corner the market on being able to SHUT everybody else up?
09/15/2012
Contributor: chikisses chikisses
I have talked with my kids giving them the basics when they were hound but the older they get naturally they have lots of more mature questions. So I answer them as well as I can. I want my kids to know rather then not know .
09/15/2012
Contributor: - Kira - - Kira -
I don't think people, adults or children, should have to censor simple facts for fear of offending someone. It's not like the child said "parents fuck to have babies!!" or some such thing. He stated a simple fact in a non offensive way. Plus - he's a freaking kid. Kids don't censor. If you teach them something, they'll share it, regardless of what you tell them.

My son is four (or will be very soon). He knows simple, correct biological terms. As he grows up, I'll teach him correct knowledge of sex. I will explain not everyone is open and comfortable with such topics, but I would never discipline him for simply stating fact. If he was vulgar about it at such a young age, then we'd be having a talk.

I also don't plan on lying in the form of childhood illusions like Santa and such. So perhaps I'm just strange? If I get a direct question, I answer honestly and directly. I have no intention of lying to my son about anything - from sex to drugs to religion and everything in between. If other parents choose to lie to their children and say the stork brings babies and that a made up person brings presents, that's just really not my problem.

In fact, I have to control my annoyance at other children or adults who teach my son such made up goop. I explain realities in simple terms for him. At this age it's impossible to say "don't tell your friends." There's no filter at four.

Another semi-related story: I have a friend who is atheist. She has books on evolution and how some people believe different religions for her five year old. He goes to a Catholic school (because non-denominational schools in this area are pricey and the public schools are worthless). His teacher was trying to teach creationism and he said "that's not true" and proceeded to explain basic evolution. The teacher was very upset and called my friend. Should my friend teach her son against her own beliefs simply to pacify those who believe differently? A child who has been taught simple science should feel free to speak it.

Generally kids will call out lies when they see them. So it's hard to teach facts and then say "but other people like to pretend sex/whatever doesn't happen, so keep it to yourself!" Plus if I have to be tolerant of morons who know nothing of sex education or other things, then you have to be tolerant to the fact that my family and I do. Tolerance goes both ways. As P'Gell said, people shouldn't be told to shut up so others can live a life in blinders.
09/16/2012
Contributor: Callosciurus Callosciurus
I think it sounds to me that the camp counselor was not so much upset about what the boy said, as upset at the possibility that he would get in trouble if the more conservative parents heard that their sheltered children had been told in such a way.

That said, the counselor should have handled it differently.
09/17/2012
Contributor: Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
The prevailing idea in this country; that we have to cater to those with the most conservative and restrictive attitudes irritates me to no end.

Liberal people get "offended" too. Yet, when open, honest, liberal people complain ... more
WHY do the most conservative corner the market on being able to SHUT everybody else up?

The answer is simple - money. The conservative right usually has all of the money; they played the game and it looks like they're winning. Liberals tend to shun the game and try to bend, break, or create rules to "stick it to the man".
09/17/2012
Contributor: Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by - Kira -
I don't think people, adults or children, should have to censor simple facts for fear of offending someone. It's not like the child said "parents fuck to have babies!!" or some such thing. He stated a simple fact in a non ... more
It always makes me really sad when I hear parents denying children the magic of fairy tales. I understand the reasoning behind it, but I always felt it stifled the imagination of the child. That being said, he is your child and you have every right to do that.

As far as your friend and the Catholic school thing, I always said I would raise my children in a private Catholic school because I saw what that kind of education did for someone whom I respect to the nth degree.

Still, I would expect the teachers to be rather upset at him discussing topics they actively shun. I would have probably told the child the creationists beliefs, are just that, beliefs. Everyone has a right to determine their own and all should be respected for it. When it comes to faith, things become very tricky.
09/17/2012
Contributor: P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by - Kira -
I don't think people, adults or children, should have to censor simple facts for fear of offending someone. It's not like the child said "parents fuck to have babies!!" or some such thing. He stated a simple fact in a non ... more
I appreciate your agreeing with my post.

I do have a question; Are you sure your friend used a Catholic school? Catholic schools do NOT teach Creationism! I went to one as a small child and then in a CCD program until 7th grade. I also went to a catholic University and evolution was taught in science, history and theology classes! Many of my friends kids go to Catholic schools and the Catholic church actually embraces evolution.

Are you sure it was a Catholic school and not a "Christian" or Evangelical school? Creationism just isn't part of the Catholic dogma, since at least Vatican II (early 1960s, when Catechism was revamped) and most likely before that.
09/17/2012
Contributor: Risque Risque
I think a healthy education on that topic is great for kids. It should not have been handled the way it was. Like knowing where you come from as a kind is bad?? I don't even understand how it would have been looked at badly.
09/20/2012