Petrochemicals are pretty evil. I'll admit the leather industry does have its issues, particularly in places where environmental protection is lax; ie all the places tanneries relocated to from North America and Europe, but they pale in comparison to the devastation wrought everywhere by the petrochem industry, from exploration and production of the raw material to disposal of the final product. There are jurisdictions in the USA where it is illegal to dispose of PVC (for example) in landfills (because it leaches insanely toxic dioxins into the groundwater) or in incinerators (insanely toxic dioxins are released into the air). Airborne dioxins travel inexorably to the poles, where they wind up in the fatty tissues of the unsuspecting creatures that live there.

Leather on the other hand, is a byproduct of the industrial meat process, and while I loathe that with a passion, it is not something that is going to end any time soon. So there is a choice. We can use those cowhides to make beautiful clothes, furniture and toys, or we can leave them to rot in great festering heaps. If the latter, you can bet it won't be too long before the meat industry figures out some profit from them either by feeding them to us in some nuggety form, or more likely, by dumping them on the third world as "infant protein supplement", ot something equally hideous. Not a very difficult choice from my perspective... less

That's exactly my point. Why not use every part of the animal if people are going to be using them for meat anyway, rather than being wasteful?

I saw something on the telly where tons of people got rid of their fur coats to protest using animals for food and clothing, but it was more wasteful than the act of killing the animal (those types of coats last for many, many years). Personally, I don't like it when people throw things away to protest the use of something. Keep using what you have, let it live its life, but don't buy anymore of it if you're going to protest. That's just me going on a little tangent, but in relation to this topic, I am all for using leather and using the animal to its full extent.

If we stop killing animals for food or the numbers decrease, then I'll definitely reconsider that. Currently, I eat meat little (like four or five times a month), so I'm alright with that amount. I just wish that tofu was less money so that I could eat more of that than meat. I prefer its bland taste, nice to work with in cooking. less

That's exactly my point. Why not use every part of the animal if people are going to be using them for meat anyway, rather than being wasteful?

I saw something on the telly where tons of people got rid of their fur coats to protest using animals for food and clothing, but it was more wasteful than the act of killing the animal (those types of coats last for many, many years). Personally, I don't like it when people throw things away to protest the use of something. Keep using what you have, let it live its life, but don't buy anymore of it if you're going to protest. That's just me going on a little tangent, but in relation to this topic, I am all for using leather and using the animal to its full extent.

If we stop killing animals for food or the numbers decrease, then I'll definitely reconsider that. Currently, I eat meat little (like four or five times a month), so I'm alright with that amount. I just wish that tofu was less money so that I could eat more of that than meat. I prefer its bland taste, nice to work with in cooking. less

Saraid, thanks for the response. I hear you and I agree, up to a point. I personally won't support the fur industry, because those animals are bred specifically for their skin. I think that's pretty distasteful, though I would agree with Sir's comment on second hand fur coats, and I think it can be extended to describe the leather supply, in that it's something that's been created as a byproduct of the main transaction.

I eat meat very rarely and never supermarket meat. Luckily, I have friends nearby who live in a very Happy Valley indeed, and they raise happy free range grass fed sheep. When they're not making horny sex toys...

My main issue, I guess, is really with petrochem products being described as "cruelty-free" in contrast to leather. It seems lazy thinking to believe that because one cannot see specific individual damage to a particular animal, there is none taking place. In fact petrochems come with a huge, negative ecological shadow for a vast range of plants, animals and entire ecosystems.

Ultimately I think avoiding leather and embracing plastics and rubber is a personal choice. We decide what we can and can't support. More earth friendly raw materials would be great. Unfortunately, we seem to be locked in a cycle of cheapness, in which our industrial wages limit us to purchasing primarily industrial products, so as things stand, I can't see when them being "economically viable" on a large scale.

Billy less

You are pretty much right there. the modern tanning process is a bit hideous (no pun intended). First off, the skins are cured, generally with salt, to arrest decomposition. They are then desalted and limed, to remove the hair.

Liming is not remotely environmentally friendly, and can include chemicals such as arsenic and cyanide. After dehairing, the leather is treated to a nice mix of table salt and sulphuric acid, which permits flexibility.

Only then is it actually tanned, with either vegetable tannins derived from tree barks, or with chemical substitutes, usually chromium. Generally speaking, veg tans are firm and are used for saddlery, harness making and anywhere you need that firmness. Chrome tans are flexible and tend to be used for furniture and clothing applications.

Here in Canada, there used to be literally hundreds of tanneries, but since the advent of environmental regulation, most have closed, to the point where there are probably less than ten in the entire country. The ones that remain have spent the money to minimise their deleterious effects and to dispose of their wastes in an approved manner, rather than just dumping them in the nearest creek. I suspect the same is true in the USA and Europe, though likely not so much in the rest of the world. Uruguay for one has huge groundwater contamination from its beef and tannery industries.

It is possible to dehair hides with dung and urine, tan them using smoke or brains and soften them by chewing, but who's going to apply for that job?

Billy less

Does your company used vegetable tannins for any of your products?

I guess that makes since that vegetable tanning is used for more firm leather... since I've seen some shoes made that way.

Overall, we try to support companies that have the least impact on the earth. There are materials that we won't buy, like PVC. less