We know this stuff is popular here. To us it is beyond understanding and the opposite of anything related to love, sex, fun, pleasure, tenderness, respect, admiration, and anything that defines a relationship. Bondage and BDSM is what we think of as done to an enemy and is evil. I would fight to release someone I loved from those conditions. Why on earth would I do that to anyone I cared about? Sorry folks....it is an alien concept to some of us. less

We know this stuff is popular here. To us it is beyond understanding and the opposite of anything related to love, sex, fun, pleasure, tenderness, respect, admiration, and anything that defines a relationship. Bondage and BDSM is what we think of as done to an enemy and is evil. I would fight to release someone I loved from those conditions. Why on earth would I do that to anyone I cared about? Sorry folks....it is an alien concept to some of us. less

Um, you need to STOP. You posted on another thread just a few days back about BDSM and it was judgmental and condescending. And here you are, yet again, being insulting to those of us who practice BDSM in or out of the bedroom. It may be an "alien concept" to you, but stop passing judgements on others.

For many of us, it intertwines with sex, love, fun, pleasure, etc. The two are not separate for everyone.

You make posts about how great anal sex is, like, every day. I don't personally like anal nor do I understand why many do. You may notice you don't see me on those threads judging others for their personal tastes. Maybe you should just avoid the BDSM forums if you think so low of us that partake in it? Because I'm starting to get REALLY pissed with your comments. less

Amen.

Bignuf, you've created discussions in the past asking people why they are into BDSM because you don't get it. I responded to it, as did others, and I think you got a lot of eloquent, well thought out, and honest responses from other posters. And yet, still, you have this condemning, judgmental, totally unfair attitude towards it, like you never even read the responses to your own thread. You don't have to like it, or get it, and it can weird you out, but why even ask people why they are into it, if you're clearly not open to the idea that your perspective is a narrow one, and you misunderstand the concepts behind BDSM and the people who practice it, happily? It's like you already had a condemning opinion, and nothing anyone has expressed to you about their own personal experiences with it has altered that opinion at all.

So, why don't you take Kira's suggestion and just stay out of BDSM related threads? You don't get it anyway, so why do you care? With this particular post, you could express that you don't get it yourself, but you use the harshest language possible to not just attack the practices of BDSM themselves, but the actual people who like it and do practice it. Do you enjoy shaming other people for their sex lives, or something? Why? What does that do for you? Because that's crueler than any BDSM scenario that involves healthy, happy, sane, and consenting adults. Do you enjoy shaming people for their sexual practices, or what? Because that's how you come off. And it's not okay, in case you don't understand that concept, either. less

Geez...so you don't get it, that's fine. But that's pretty harsh, to say it's the opposite of anything related to love, sex, fun, pleasure, tenderness, respect, admiration, and that's it's evil. Could you possibly be more condemning?

Candice, try it out in stages and see if it's for you. Be with a partner that you trust and have open communication with. You could start by experimenting with light bondage, spanking, etc. You don't need to dive into it full force at first. It's actually more fun to experiment with things in degrees, and discover different sensations and to build on your experiences that way. There's a lot to explore and who people are into it in varying degrees, so finding where you are on that spectrum is a great adventure. It's done nothing but bring my partner and I closer together, create intimacy, trust, respect and understanding. It's liberating to feel that you can share this kind of a relationship with someone, if it's something you both want. And let me tell you, it's produced the best sex of my life and is a lot of fun...because we're not evil people, it's just something we enjoy sharing with each other.

Have a safe word and if you're bound and gagged, have a safe signal so if it gets too intense, you can stop everything and reassess the situation. Keep an open mind, communicate with your partner, have fun, and rest assured, it's a totally normal thing to be interested in exploring, and if you end up liking it, good for you for finding what feels good for you and your partner. If not, well, nothing ventured, nothing gained! Now you know. less

Um, you need to STOP. You posted on another thread just a few days back about BDSM and it was judgmental and condescending. And here you are, yet again, being insulting to those of us who practice BDSM in or out of the bedroom. It may be an "alien concept" to you, but stop passing judgements on others.

For many of us, it intertwines with sex, love, fun, pleasure, etc. The two are not separate for everyone.

You make posts about how great anal sex is, like, every day. I don't personally like anal nor do I understand why many do. You may notice you don't see me on those threads judging others for their personal tastes. Maybe you should just avoid the BDSM forums if you think so low of us that partake in it? Because I'm starting to get REALLY pissed with your comments. less

Yes, all of this! I remember that thread too. I thought it was nice that someone who wasn't into it would be willing to learn. So many people wrote amazing and detailed answers. Did you even bother to read them? Or the replies that you've gotten in other discussions when people have responded to your harsh words? 'Cause it kinda feels like you just say your insulting piece and leave.

And I totally agree that shaming people for their preferences is far worse than BDSM. At least when I get humiliated in a BDSM sense, I consented to it. I certainly didn't consent to some person on the internet telling me how fucked up my life is. less

Amen.

Bignuf, you've created discussions in the past asking people why they are into BDSM because you don't get it. I responded to it, as did others, and I think you got a lot of eloquent, well thought out, and honest responses from other posters. And yet, still, you have this condemning, judgmental, totally unfair attitude towards it, like you never even read the responses to your own thread. You don't have to like it, or get it, and it can weird you out, but why even ask people why they are into it, if you're clearly not open to the idea that your perspective is a narrow one, and you misunderstand the concepts behind BDSM and the people who practice it, happily? It's like you already had a condemning opinion, and nothing anyone has expressed to you about their own personal experiences with it has altered that opinion at all.

So, why don't you take Kira's suggestion and just stay out of BDSM related threads? You don't get it anyway, so why do you care? With this particular post, you could express that you don't get it yourself, but you use the harshest language possible to not just attack the practices of BDSM themselves, but the actual people who like it and do practice it. Do you enjoy shaming other people for their sex lives, or something? Why? What does that do for you? Because that's crueler than any BDSM scenario that involves healthy, happy, sane, and consenting adults. Do you enjoy shaming people for their sexual practices, or what? Because that's how you come off. And it's not okay, in case you don't understand that concept, either. less

Bignuf--I truly appreciate the clarification and accept that this was a misunderstanding. It's just an understandably touchy issue. Of course you aren't alone in not getting BDSM--that's why a lot of people who are into it feel the need to hide it or be in the closet about it with some people in their lives. Many, many people assume that people into those kinds of sex acts or lifestyles are screwed up people who are either abusive and/or the victims of abuse merely acting out some twisted version of sexuality that comes from some kind of trauma. Even if things like 50 Shades of Grey indicate a fairly widespread interest in BDSM, few people actually understand it in practice. Many of us grow up with notions about our own sexuality that is not healthy, whether from home, from friends or from just the culture and society that we come from, and too many people grow into adults that are not comfortable with their sexuality, because of these notions growing up. If you're into things like restraints and whips, dirty talk, sexual humiliation, sub/Dom roles, etc., it can be difficult, at first, to accept those things about yourself, or to want to explore them. Some of us never do explore them out of shame, fear of our partner's reaction, or feeling that we must need counseling because that's not how we are taught to have sex or how to express affection towards someone. It's unfortunate when that happens, because sex, to me and to many people, is an important part of our lives, our health, our happiness and the way we connect intimately with other people. If someone who is curious about it and curious about exploring it creates a thread like this asking about BDSM and reads a response about it being the opposite of love, respect, sex, etc., that it's evil and something "alien," how do you think that person feels about that?

I accept that it was poor wording on your end and am grateful that you've taken the time to explain yourself and that you don't feel that way about people who have such sexual tastes. Just please understand it's not because we want everyone to agree with what we like or are turned on by (variety is a wonderful thing, and I think it takes all kinds of people to make this world a vibrant, great place, and there are more than a few ways to healthily express sexuality and affection), but because we don't want to hear that we're fucked up for the way that we are, especially when we're happy with that side of ourselves. I've never been happier with my sexuality and this is a fairly new development for me. Discovering this about myself has been tremendously satisfying for me, and so I will defend it from perceived judgement, condemnation and misunderstandings.

Thanks for clarifying, and I'm glad we're on the same page. less

Thank you for your apology. As Supervixen said, there are so many people that spend time disturbed by what they like based on how society sees "normal," some even hating themselves for it, that negative comments about it on a sex-positive site are the last thing anyone needs. You're exactly right that so many people don't "get it." My own mother shares beliefs that it isn't loving and that those who do what we do are somehow messed up. It's incredibly upsetting to me not to be able to share with her a HUGE part of my life in fear of being judged. I try to educate her when I can without outting myself too much.

The thing is, she's not in a sex positive space when she says those things. I expect that if I posted about bondage or whatever on a forum about kittens then I'd be met with a lot of negative replies. I expect that if I mention BDSM to people at a dinner party, I'll get a lot of strange looks. On the flip side, if I'm on a sex positive website, I at least hope that those on the boards will be open to types of relationships different from theirs.

The thing is, if you don't like it, all the reading and asking in the world may not make you "get it." There's certain kinks out there I'll never understand either. The important thing isn't if you "get it" or not, but how you view those that do something other than what you do. I don't think I'll ever understand scat or age play, but that's okay. I think that if someone is into those things then good for them and play on. That's really the important part. The live and let live, not if you can truly wrap your head around it. I don't think any of us expect everyone to "get it," we'd just like respect for what we do as much as anyone else in the world.

I do hope that one day you may understand the joy that we experience from BDSM, but if you never do, well, that's okay too. It's not for everyone and I know that. I'm glad to hear you'll try to phrase things better when expressing that you don't understand in the future. Much appreciated, truly. less

Addendum and follow up to an apology; We went out to dinner tonight and happened to be joined by one of our "Friday Night free speech" group fellow couples (even though it is Saturday)...and we spent three hours discussing pretty much this exact topic. Nothing better then a BDSM deep discussion while eating Vietnamese Stir Fry. Yum.

Anyway, hubby and I came to some major realizations. While we really do have trouble getting our brains around the whole BDSM thing, and while we sincerely do respect the fact that others enjoy it, even if it is not for us, the fact is there is another issue at play that makes us read these posts with incredible interest. It is an aspect that those in the "community" of BDSM and regular posters here may not even realize (sometimes you cannot see the forest for the tree's if you are too close).

The fact is, most of the BDSM posts seem to have more passion, more personal complexity and more enthusiasm then any of the other topic categories here on EF. The use of language and the overall tone of the comments says that this "activity"? Lifestyle?..not sure the best term to use, attracts a very intelligent, thoughtful and amazingly committed, and passionate group of people. While we may not share interest in the activities, we find very strong kinship with the focused passion and intelligent attention to detail of those in this community. Does that make sense?

For example, look at posts for BDSM toys. The reviewers take lots of detailed photos, videos and their descriptions are so detailed and specific. Compare that to, just for argument sake, the anal toys (since you folks all know I am a big time "anal" play girl). While some of those posts are very good, many reviews are simply short, and more "minimalist" . You don't find that same passion as often towards that activity.

More then that, I don't think I could or would wear a necklace saying "Assmaster" or "Anal goddess", and, in fact, no such things exist, that I have seen. However, there are BDSM proponents who proudly sport S&M necklaces and wear little kitty collars or such, to show their involvement with that community. In fact, it seems that BDSM proponents actually identify themselves as a "community", where you don't find the "anal community" or "oral sex community".

It is that level of commitment to the lifestyle (and there seems to be a huge range of involvement) to the overall pure intelligence and passion to it, that we find amazing, attractive and compelling. If I had to guess, just based on what I have read here, the last year, on EF Forums, I would say some of the smartest people get attracted to this "lifestyle", just based on the writings.

Again, I hope everyone here understands that we support every single one of you in your pursuit of fun and happiness in whatever form that comes to you, as we have found amazing support for our own "kinks and goofy habits" (of which we know we have many)!

We never want anyone to read another of our posts without coming away with some warm fuzzies. We live in a THIN glass house, and so, please know, we are not in the habit of deliberately throwing stones!!!!

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We did laugh at your post in that we have a D/D personality issue here. I think we would have a lot of trouble figuring out who was which! Anyone ever do a day on/day off swap of whose the "D" and whose the "s"? Does it ever work with two, hard, "type A" personalities? less

People do that. Generally people who go back and forth are considered "switches." If someone is very strongly toward one end they usually won't swap. I could never do the D end of things. It's just not how I'm wired. I seriously doubt my husband could do the s thing either. Works out well. less

Switches? Wow...now there is an interesting concept. Something to research for sure. I wonder how well that works out? I can actually see one day just letting hubby do as he pleases, no input from me, and another day swapping that roll. Might not be true D/s but might be fun. less