How do you feel about "Barely Legal" pornography?

Contributor: WhoopieDoo WhoopieDoo
Quote:
Originally posted by Chirple
If the actresses are legal, I don't really care. People are always going to have creepy fantasies.

And, biologically, it's normal to be attracted to the 14-18 age bracket. Do I condone having sex with someone under the age of consent ? ... more
I think people forget (or are in denial) that people are sexual beings once they go through puberty, something I did when I was 12. I'm NOT saying it's okay to chase 12-year-olds. Or 13-year-olds. Or 14-year-olds......I'm just saying that 18-year-olds that look like 14-year-olds shouldn't have hatred thrust all over them just for looking like younger (if untouchable) sexual beings.
01/02/2012
Contributor: squire squire
For me, it's not my thing but it doesn't bother me if others like it. As stated above, there are plenty of people who are in their mid to late 20's who look like teenagers...and if that body type is your thing, be it small breasts/hairless or whatever, then who's to judge. What I have a problem with is how some of this material is marketed. To me there is a difference between someone who is made to look more youthful or wearing clothing normally attributed to youth (i.e., cheerleader outfits, stockings ect) and porn or sites that use marketing with the specific purpose of suggesting "barely legal" participants.
01/02/2012
Contributor: Owl Identified Owl Identified
Quote:
Originally posted by AndroAngel
Being that I'm someone who looks underage myself, at least someone finds me sexy, I suppose? I've been propositioned to be in such porn before, and the thought of it makes me uncomfortable. That said, it's a healthy outlet for something ... more
I agree that this kind of porn can be an outlet for some that simple have a kink for the fantasy of minor-adult encounters. For people that enjoy the fantasy, but would never act on it, yes, this is a fine outlet. However, I don't think it will cure a pedophile of their desire to fulfill their fantasy. For many, it fear it may just normalize the desire for them. I also think that this kind of porn desensitizes many non-pedophiles to the gravity of assaulting adolescents. Many people think that it's perfectly acceptable for a 14 year old girl to be regarded as a sexual prospect - she's had her period, right? She has breasts, right? I was raped at 14 and I can tell you that even though I had gone through the bulk of puberty and was aware of my own vague sexual desires, I was in NO WAY capable of consenting at that time. I did not know how to express my "no" and was afraid and still regarded the adult as, well, an authority. I was terrified. Finally, I think that the pervasiveness of this porn speaks to a serious problem that we as a nation are not acknowledging; we sexualize girlhood. Again, this porn can act as a method of normalizing and sanctioning this practice.

Long story short: I don't have a problem with this kind of porn existing, but I do think it can be extremely harmful if we don't remain critical of it. The same thing of "rape" porn. I don't have a problem with it existing, and I don't have a problem with rape as a FANTASY. But, I think it's horribly dangerous to ignore the serious problems the United States has with sexualizing rape and girlhood in its media. Sometimes we do so for fear of being told we're not "sex positive," but this is a very misguided attitude, I feel.

I hope no one here with non-consent or minor-adult fantasies feels attacked. I am not criticizing or judging your kinks, I assure you. My wish is to be critical and think carefully about the possible impact porn can on the reality of child abuse and sexual assault. I don't think rape porn = rape culture. Not by a long shot; we make choices, porn and movies and television and music and commercials don't MAKE us do anything. But? I think that a society that doesn't think critically about these forms of media becomes a dangerous climate that is very, very hospitable to rape. Period.
01/02/2012
Contributor: UnknownGirl UnknownGirl
I guess if the models are about the legal age then it's really not an issue.
01/02/2012
Contributor: spiceboy spiceboy
Honestly even if the porn is specifically made to cater to ephebophiles or hebephiles (those attracted to post-pubescent teens under 18 and those attracted to younger pubescent teens, respectively) I think it's GOOD for them to have a legal outlet. Anything that will appease their sexual frustration and keep them from interacting with real youngsters is a positive move.

Getting rid of "barely legal" porn, drawings, and computer animated material isn't going to stop people from having attractions outside of a socially accepted age range, it's just limiting their options for exercising those fantasies safely. Even if you find it creepy, it has its place.
01/02/2012
Contributor: Owl Identified Owl Identified
Quote:
Originally posted by spiceboy
Honestly even if the porn is specifically made to cater to ephebophiles or hebephiles (those attracted to post-pubescent teens under 18 and those attracted to younger pubescent teens, respectively) I think it's GOOD for them to have a legal ... more
My question is, what conclusive, scholarly evidence do you have to support the claim that watching this kind of porn will curtail their desires? Isn't it just as possible that watching this porn could normalize this behavior for them, desensitize them to the consequences, exacerbate their obsession, etc? It's pretty difficult to make an absolute statement about what this kind of media will do to someone with this pathology without accounting for the individual. It's difficult to be precise about cause and effect, let alone on such a massive scale. There are far too many intersecting factors to consider for such a broad claim to be defensive. If you want to argue that this kind of porn "has its place" (and I agree that it does) you may want to consider your reasons for doing so.

I also take issue with your usage of the phrase "socially accepted age range". I understand that other cultures - and even subcultures within the United States culture - have other values and norms for sexual maturity. However, your phrasing seems to suggest a kind of moral relativism that I'm uncomfortable with. There is a basis for age based consent laws, and it extends far beyond arbitrarily decided "social" mores.

Finally, I don't think anyone here suggested getting rid of what is a perfectly legal form of media. Some people expressed their discomfort with it, which is very legitimate. I personally expressed my discomfort with what I view as a misguided (and lazy, I think) attitude of unqualified "tolerance" in an effort to be "sex positive."
01/02/2012
Contributor: <3BF <3BF
Quote:
Originally posted by Nazaress
I don't watch porn, either. I've been trying to get into it but it's all so creepy and fake. It's always directed towards men. I'm on the search to find some actual lesbian porn, though.
I like amateur porn because it's not staged. If you can handle the fact that the amateur porn is also filmed by amateurs and is often one angle with inadequate lighting or what-not Too much porn is just a pathetic gimmick and I can't stand watching a girl fake an orgasm.
01/02/2012
Contributor: Owl Identified Owl Identified
Quote:
Originally posted by Owl Identified
My question is, what conclusive, scholarly evidence do you have to support the claim that watching this kind of porn will curtail their desires? Isn't it just as possible that watching this porn could normalize this behavior for them, desensitize ... more
*defensive = defensible
01/02/2012
Contributor: spiceboy spiceboy
Quote:
Originally posted by Owl Identified
My question is, what conclusive, scholarly evidence do you have to support the claim that watching this kind of porn will curtail their desires? Isn't it just as possible that watching this porn could normalize this behavior for them, desensitize ... more
All I have is the personal experience of a friend and a very limited group of folks I've encountered with pedophilic to ephebophilic sexual preferences. As with anything else the effect of this kind of porn can only be evaluated on an individual basis and it wasn't my intention to make a definitive statement on how it would be received. I should have said that it "CAN appease their sexual frustration" rather than "WILL appease", and I apologize for not being more careful with my wording. It's also relevant to note that my comments were contextualized by the tone of the original post; had I read your earlier post beforehand I'm sure I would have responded differently and with a broader perspective. You added a lot of substance to the conversation that wasn't present on the first page (which was all I'd read at the time of my post). As it were I was just offering one side as a counter to the opinions I saw.

I totally agree that certain presentations of this kind of material are dangerous in the same ways that conventional porn can be dangerous. Even if there is the illusion of consent (the girl agreed to get in the van and have sex with the three guys waiting naked in the back, after all) it still feeds into rape culture when porn after porn puts out the message that girls should be willing and subservient. I don't, however, equate attraction to persons under the age of 18 with the want or need to rape. So many people have these attractions and would never dream of acting on them because there is no possibility of consent. For this group someone who simply looks young could be an equivalent substitute. I think watching simulated minor-adult porn with actors of a legal age is a safe outlet; whether or not watching porn has the power to turn someone into a rapist is a different argument.

As for age based consent laws, I appreciate and understand them in some regards but I disagree with laws that would put a 19 year old in jail for having consensual sex with a 16 year old even if they're both in high school or both in college. I don't mean range as in "0 to 18", I mean the range in age between a person and their partner. The idea that 2 or 3 years on either side of 18 make a person definably capable or incapable of consent is absolutely arbitrary. Sorry if my phrasing left too vague an impression since there was a very specific meaning behind it.

I wouldn't advocate an unqualified tolerance of anything. Again, my comment wasn't meant to be a complete analysis and was admittedly unclear. While I don't think anything would easily desensitize someone to the consequences of sex with a minor or child, we seem to be in agreement here for the most part. I'd be happy to move this to a private message if it's something you'd like to discuss further?
01/02/2012
Contributor: Owl Identified Owl Identified
Quote:
Originally posted by spiceboy
All I have is the personal experience of a friend and a very limited group of folks I've encountered with pedophilic to ephebophilic sexual preferences. As with anything else the effect of this kind of porn can only be evaluated on an individual ... more
This is a really wonderful response, and I really appreciate the time and the care you put into your wording. I can assure you it was not lost on me. I'm going to think a bit and probably privately message you because that does seem like the best way to continue the conversation. I just wanted to thank you for your response!
01/02/2012
Contributor: Nazaress Nazaress
Quote:
Originally posted by Chirple
If the actresses are legal, I don't really care. People are always going to have creepy fantasies.

And, biologically, it's normal to be attracted to the 14-18 age bracket. Do I condone having sex with someone under the age of consent ? ... more
I did not know that happened. The banning of small breasted porn, I mean. That really is terrible. No, it's one thing to have small breasts and be tiny. You can still look sexy and you can still look your age. I've known some damn fine women who were short and have small breasts.

This is a bit different. In one of the advertisements for porn of this type, it had captions like "flatties" and "metal-mouths". It was making the women seem like they were under 18. It was creepy. When I think "just turned 18", I don't think of a 4'11" girl with braces, a shaved crotch, and a child's figure. I think of a (probably shaved) girl with decent boobs, a curvy body, and other features that young girls have when they've fully blossomed into women. (By the way, this is not to say that women with small breasts aren't women. Of course they are. This is just an example to point out why someone who looks 14 doesn't come to mind when I think 18.)
01/02/2012
Contributor: sexydelphia sexydelphia
kinda creepy
01/02/2012
Contributor: Nazaress Nazaress
Quote:
Originally posted by <3BF
I like amateur porn because it's not staged. If you can handle the fact that the amateur porn is also filmed by amateurs and is often one angle with inadequate lighting or what-not Too much porn is just a pathetic gimmick and I can't stand ... more
I've considered amateur porn for that very reason. The camera part of it might bother me at first but I'd rather have shoddy camera action as opposed to fake orgasms for the sake of a man. If I could find some REAL lesbian porn where you can tell the girls enjoy it, I would be in Heaven.

Also, I wanted to thank everyone for all the wonderful responses. I didn't expect this thread to see so much action!
01/02/2012
Contributor: indiglo indiglo
Quote:
Originally posted by voenne
I kind of don't care what people are into, but it sort of bothers me. Because even though they are legal, if they are intentionally marketing them off as young teen/child, it sort of bothers me and in a way seems like it's promoting ... more
Yeah I agree with this. Since the actresses are legal, of course it's fine. But I kind of don't like the idea that they are intentionally marketing them as being the youngest of the young that you can't get in trouble for.
01/02/2012
Contributor: Ansley Ansley
In hind sight, my comment would open a crapstorm so I've removed it.
01/04/2012
Contributor: quinceykay quinceykay
I do find it quite creepy when they try to market these girls as seeming as young as they possibly can. Sometimes when I come across barely legal porn, I have to click away from it because I honestly don't know whether or not the actress is 18+. But at the same time, I don't think it's that weird to be attracted to it. Men are often attracted to teenagers - why else would the schoolgirl, cheerleader, etc. fantasies be so popular? The age of consent in most states is 16 or 17 anyway. So I don't think "barely legal" porn featuring consenting adults, while sometimes creepy, is that big of a deal.
01/06/2012
Contributor: Rin (aka Nire) Rin (aka Nire)
So long as everyone involved is actually of the age of consent, I see nothing wrong with it. If nothing else, it's better to have a legal outlet for taboo interests than to go and do something that might be harmful to a teen/child and land you in prison.

On a side note, I remember seeing late-night ads for a phone sex line called "We Are 18" or something like that. All the ladies looked to be in their mid-20s, at least. You're not fooling anyone, girls!
01/07/2012
Contributor: Cherry21 Cherry21
Quote:
Originally posted by Nazaress
Particularly, the porn that advertises girls with flat chests, braces, and other things that are obviously intended to make them look like they're well below the age of 18. Personally, I find it extremely creepy and bordering on pedophilic. ... more
won't say much, but we dont watch it!
01/07/2012
Contributor: mandaj mandaj
its creepy and nasty. I dnt think its ok what so ever. cuz its for the ones tht like lil girls....but they are doing it legal. so just in tht makes it wrong in my eyes. i also think maybe make girls over 21...when ur 18 ur still young and making childish decisions (most girls anyways)
01/07/2012
Contributor: switzerland switzerland
to each his own, yes. but we shouldn't be encouraging pedophilia, even if the girl is actually 18.
01/07/2012
Contributor: cectru cectru
I once asked a group of men about this attraction. One of them made a good point. He noted that the consenting age of 18 is a relatively new law in the United States and the age of consent is still even age 7 or the onset of puberty in some regions of the globe. In the US, the age of consent was raised from 10-12 (1800s) to 16-17 (1895) and was finally raised to 18 in 1920.

So given the fact that girls have historically been seen as sexual beings shortly after puberty, it would follow that many men are still attracted to a much younger girl (From an evolutionary standpoint). The guys noted that the legality of having sex with a child under 18, keeps majority of their sexual desire for younger girls at bay and they settle for a 'barely legal'.

It made sense to me. But please note I do not condone sex with a minor. The attraction makes sense though.
01/11/2012
Contributor: <3BF <3BF
Thanks sexiskewt and Owl Identified for your very detailed responses to this question.

I have no idea whether 'barely legal' pornography is an outlet to people who would like to have sex with minors, or causes our perception as a society to view minors as sexual objects for fantasy. I would like to see some hard research on the topic. I think this is related to other conundrums I've run across, such as, 'do violent videogames cause violence, or are they a safe outlet for violence in a fantasy world?' Many people will argue both ways and even produce convincing evidence for both opinions.

I have no real experience with 'barely legal' porn, but I could try to draw a parallel perhaps with, say my desire to watch lesbian porn. Does watching lesbian porn immerse me in a sexual fantasy that I find erotic and appealing? Yes. Does watching lesbian porn make me think an actual lesbian would want to have sex with me? Nope. Does it make me feel that the lesbians I know in real life would like me to participate, or watch in on their love life (or even give me a desire to do so)? No, not at all. Does it give me rape urges towards lesbians because I have seen such pornography and feel more immersed in the fantasy? Absolutely not. Even though immersion in the fantasy might make it seem more possible for some male viewers to suddenly fulfill s lesbian or a 'barely legal' fantasy with reality, most viewers will realize it for what it is: a fantasy.

MIGHT it give rape urges to someone else watching, someone who is perhaps more obsessed with the fantasy? I believe so, in extreme situations. In that sense, watching lesbian porn might goad someone who is already unstable towards justifying a monstrous act of rape, but it was someone already with a predisposition towards the act, and not the general audience of that form of pornography. I believe it would be the same for 'barely legal' pornography.

In my opinion, a prime candidate to watch 'barely legal' pornography would be someone who likes looking at younger girls, not necessarily minors, and not per-pubescent girls. If you like younger looking girls I think you have a right to like younger looking girls as long as they are 18+. I don’t think any pedophiles would go for ‘barely legal’ pornography because almost no one over 18 is going to look pre-pubescent, even if they do have small breasts and braces, and pedophilia by definition is the desire for pre-pubescent children.

Some people have a desire to harshly whip their partners in BSDM fantasies, which I feel can be degrading, and in the same sense desensitize viewers who watch this regularly, making the recipient look little more than a violent sex object than a person. Yet do I think this type of pornography should be banned? No, not if two willing adults are consensually participating in the fantasy. I recognize the difference between my sexual views and would is a right of free and willing individuals. Even though in the big picture it could be argued that some individuals are inappropriately responding to this type pornography and committing illegal acts after watching it, I would not blame the pornographic content of the fantasy itself, rather the individuals who take it beyond the bounds of law.

Even if you enjoy what is (or might be) implied in a fantasy, the fantasy does not necessitate a desire for the reality behind it. In the same sense that I might watch a lesbian scene in pornography with no desire to have sex with a lesbian in real life, I think a 'barely legal' pornographic viewer is most likely NOT to want to have sex with a minor, and is probably relieved to see that all actresses in the film are 18+, not disappointed by it.

In my own opinion I still do find some forms of pornography reprehensible and degrading, such as a fake ‘snuff’ film and some BSDM. I think it is important for a society to continually look at its values and go to extra lengths in particular to protect its innocents. However I also feel that individuals need freedom, especially sexual freedom, because repressing sex only drives it underground, as Victorian England brothels will testify. There are better ways to change the way people view sex than by simply making things illegal; such as education, social programs, respecting one another through example, etc. I think the laws we have in place in the United States are working well, with 18+ as the age for pornography, and the age of consent ranging from 16 to 18 years old. Does this mean everyone is emotionally ready at 16 or 18? No, it is an arbitrary number for adulthood but we have agreed to it as a society and can re-evaluate it, and change it as we see fit.

I really hope I've worded my thoughts with sensitivity; I'm male and have had no experience with rape and would detest it if I hurt anyone's feelings, but I wanted to give voice to my opinion as well. Thanks again to you both for providing the detailed responses you did, reading them was informative and education is liberating.
01/12/2012
Contributor: jedent jedent
i don't care either way.
01/12/2012
Contributor: Badass Badass
Quote:
Originally posted by Nazaress
Particularly, the porn that advertises girls with flat chests, braces, and other things that are obviously intended to make them look like they're well below the age of 18. Personally, I find it extremely creepy and bordering on pedophilic. ... more
it is creepy when they look super young, but most porn girls dont..
01/24/2012
Contributor: GONE! GONE!
The older I get the weirder it feels to watch it. XD I don't find it creepy if they aren't doing anything that particularly highlights how young they look but I remember seeing one video where the girls were on a bed with teddy bears and stuff so it just looked... Wrong. I look very young myself so I'm glad there are people who would find that attractive, but I don't really like when it's played up that they're supposed to be playing teenagers or something instead of just looking "barely legal."
01/24/2012
Contributor: Sir Sir
Quote:
Originally posted by K101
The only thing I can think of is... that is somebody's little girl. Yuck.

PS. I don't watch porn at all though, legal or not.
Quite honestly, isn't every person somebody's child? That point is moot because I could say that about any pornographic film.

Pornography in general isn't for me, but I find nothing wrong with it, quite honestly.
01/24/2012
Contributor: hummingbird8 hummingbird8
I dont see how guys like the flat chested inexperienced type
01/29/2012
Contributor: El-Jaro El-Jaro
Quote:
Originally posted by hummingbird8
I dont see how guys like the flat chested inexperienced type
Different strokes for different folks.
01/30/2012
Contributor: Ms. Spice Ms. Spice
Quote:
Originally posted by hummingbird8
I dont see how guys like the flat chested inexperienced type
wow, can we say rude? Sorry not every woman has triple D boobs and lacks the performing skills of a porn star.

(I'm not against women with large boobs or excellent sex skills, btw!)
01/30/2012
Contributor: Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by hummingbird8
I dont see how guys like the flat chested inexperienced type
Oh this hurts my brain, so badly. I lack a huge rack and I have never had anyone who has seen me naked tell me they don't love my breasts. Did I mention I look like I'm sixteen on my best day and not much over nineteen on my worst? And experience? I could write a novel.

I guess all blonde women with large breasts are gold-digging, money-grubbing whores who work their way through life on their backs too, right?

I hope, in time, that your participation in this sex-positive community will diminish your need to stereotype people and that you can see the beauty in every relationship, and in every body type regardless of your own personal preferences.
01/30/2012